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I just got a new battleforce box, and I am unsure what to do with my warriors. I could make them into the leaping rending, but what other choises are there out there. I already have 6 of the dakka warriors, (Twinlinked Devourers) and I don't think I should make another bit of those. I only have maybe 1500 points, so would the leaping rending be a good idea? How effective if the barbed strangler and the venom cannon on warriors? What about the wings and fleshborer and rending combo I have heard about?
Any tips on what I should make this unit would be great!
Eldar Craftworld Igsolus-Toc (reset for 5th)
0 / 0 / 0 3500+
Tyranids Hive Fleet Oceanus (reset for 5th)
0 / 0 / 0 WIP around 1600 points
The main effective warrior load outs that I've put to good use or heard that they work are the cc one, the dakkas and the deathspitters. You said you have dakkas, so I'll skip those.
These guys are good light tank busters and provide some longer range fire support that nids don't have a lot of. They also provide some relatively cheap syanpse and work well at shooting at stuff like transports and troops that have some higher toughness. The main ways I've seen these outfitted is warriors with either TL deathspitters for accuracy or scything talons and a deathspitter. Added to this is ES, probably EC and TS. Other than that they don't really need anything other than a BS or VC, depending if you want to hit tanks or infantry more. I've had a lot of luck with these guys in smaller point games and I think that's where they really shine. After 1000 points, they are still useful, but start to get outgunned. I would advise these if you are lacking some ranged firepower.
The main loadouts for these are scything talons and rending claws. Throw in Adrenal gland I, leaping, EC, flesh hooks and maybe toxin sacs or the WS adrenal gland, depending on how expensive you want them to be. Rending is going to account for a lot of the kills, so it really depends on personal choice and I don't think the WS and toxin sacs help a ton, but you might put them on if you have points to spare. These guys take a lot of criticism from people who complain that they aren't as good as either stealers or raveners, and they are probably right in almost all circumstances, but they are still good. The added bonus of synapse can also not be overlooked which I think a lot of people do. They are still pretty deadly in CC anyway. I've had a unit of 3 tear through at least a squad of termies and usually more on several occasions, so I wouldn't say that they aren't worth their points.
For the choice between them, I would look at you're army. Are you missing anything crucial like a good cc backbone or ranged support? If not, it may just be up to personal play style, but I think that any of these 3 choices of warrior set ups work pretty well. Wings may work okay, but I don't have much experience with them, mainly because I hate having a 30-40 point unit with only a 5+ save, no matter how fast or mobile it is.
Originally Posted by The Paint Monkey
As stated, if you aren't sure what role to give to a Unit, look at the rest of your list. If you're lacking in CC, make some RC/ST warriors. If you need a ranged punch, try deathspitters.
Venom Cannon is nice but if im using it i ussualy set my Warrior Brood with 2 Fleshborers (Or Deathspitters), 1 Venom Cannon, Wings, Toxin Sacs and Enhanced Senses. They go around back and get at the rear armor of tanks, or pick off infantry.
Leaping RC/ST warriors can be brutal, good at taking out heavy infantry and vehicles. Downside is that they take a while to get into CC and might have a tough time keeping up with the rest of the Army
Like i said, take a look at the list. If you need AT try te VC/Wings setup, if you want extra CC punch use RC/ST.
I made my 3 warriors for both melee and ranged. I gave them each a set of scything talons, 2 devourers, and a venom cannon. Also must have extended carapace. I may have used more bio-morphs, but I don't have them with me right now and don't remember.
The reason for only 1 ranged weapon is that they only get to shoot with one during each shooting phase (I think. Don't have my codex with me.)
I spent entirely too much time the other day looking at what a warrior could do with each of their weapons in terms of damage per turn and then divided that out by the cost of the weapon(s), and biomorphs, to determine what gets the most bang for the buck. what I found was not really that surprising.
Keep in mind these ideas come from my number crunching rather and I, in no way, did even extensive look into the many, many extensive variables that come into play.
What I found was the weapon that looked to be the most effective was the devourer. It is just an all around GREAT gun for tyranids. It is good when it is twinlinked, but point for point, it is most cost effective when it is on its own with no toxin sacs. That saves a little bit of points. Since I knew that I was not going to twin link it, I decided to give it a CC option, since 18" is knocking right at the opponent's door. I went with rending claws in place of an extra attack. I just don't think one more attack will equal the greater possibilities and intimidation that rending claws have. Since I have rending claws, there is no point to upgrade my WS. I just am looking for 6's and whatever else comes, woo hoo! I did go with an AG (I) to boost me to where I more then likely go first. And of course I have enhanced senses and extended carapace on them.
I toyed around with the deathspitter loadouts and found that, in my opinion, they couple well with the venom cannon in the squad. This is the squad I put toxin sacs on. They have good enough damage for taking out light to medium vehicles. The venomcannon can take out medium vehicles as well. I did not run the numbers against vehicles, but that has been done many times before. This is the unit that I add all the upgardes for because now they are stronger, thus more likely to wound an opponent. These are the guys I want with extra attacks in CC, better chances to hit in CC, etc.. I am running a squad of four. Three have deathspitters and scything talons and one has venom cannon and rending claws (too lazy to model a new one). These guys have the option of sitting back at range and shooting. Although, since we are tyranids, there is no reason NOT to move around and shoot stuff.
I know, I know. I am breaking one of the core premises of the forum, "Keep your shooters shooty and your assaulters assaulty. Don't mix and match"
Balance is a wonderful thing. Plus, the payout (from what I saw with the numbers I crunched) was not big enough for me to justify spending the money to twin-link. Again, just my opinion.
From experience this is what I came up with:
Brood of 6 Warriors (208 pts)
Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, 6x Scything Talons, 5x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon
I love this unit now. Extremely fragile, but nasty. And in 5th ed they'll only get more powerful.
I wouldn't take three warriors by themselves. They don't pack enough punch and die easily. Stash them for now and wait till you buy another battlforce.
"The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
Exactly my same thoughts, magnet-man. Small warrior broods are extremely fragile. However, making a large brood seems to work well in my games. Also, the long range of deathspitters keeps them away from double-tapping marines and the fact that it looks like in 5e they are going to get a big boost makes such a squad very interesting.
The high strength of deathspitters also allows them to threat vehicles of all kind, and the blast makes them decent enough to hurt massed infantry, I guess. The only downside I see is, they're not providing synapse to front-line gaunts.
"The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
Most of the regulars here know I field squads of 3-4 warriors with twin-linked devourers, enhanced senses, extended carapace (in 2k games) and toxin sacs. In 1500 point games I field them in 3-war no-ec squads, keep 'em in cover as they move up, and they're 105 points per squad.
For that low cost, you get 12 shots that hit on 4's and re-roll and are s4 with re-rolls to wound, plus the ability to harm AV10 vehicles (more and more frequent with new orks).
You can give them ST or RC instead of a 2nd devourer to twin-link, but I don't think it's the best approach. The ST/RC may be cheaper, but if your warriors are being played properly, the CC weapon is not being used, which means it is NOT cost effective (in my opinion). Tyranids should be played with offense in mind, not defense.
With no twin-link, just ES and no TS, against AV10 vehicles, they are useless.
Against marines, a squad of 3:
12 shots, 6 hits, 3.3 wounds. This kills 1.1 marines.
With twin-link, ES, and TS, against AV10 vehicles:
12 shots, 9 hits, 1.5 glances, gonna do some damage, esp. if vehicle is open topped
12 shots, 9 hits, 6.75 wounds. This kills 2.375 marines, more than twice as effective, plus a higher # of wounds with re-rolls on hits AND wounds *always* means a chance to kill way more. Without ts/tl, you can kill at most 3.3 marines, and can do at most 0 glances to av10. You also can't hurt T7 targets. With ts/tl, you can kill 6.75 marines, and can glance a vehicle up to 9 times.
So mainly in re: the "keep it cheap ha ha" comment above, no ... small warrior squads with tl devs, es, ts are brutal, and still small/cheap enough that your opponent has to think hard about shooting at them and ignoring the rest of your swarm, which helps ensure they deliver their payload. Just keep 'em in cover (also easy to do b/c you only have 3 per squad). Not many other great uses of your elite slot anyway, so spam 'em ... I field 3 squads of 3 in 1500, 3 squads of 4 in 2000.
I strongly encourage players who HAVEN'T to proxy / try 2 tyrants with a pair of twin-linked devourers each, backed up by 3 warrior squads as above with twin-linked devourers, toxin sacs/enhanced senses on all. The tyrants will be 121 points plain-jane, the warrior squads 105 points. For the net 557 points, you put out 60 twin-linked living ammo shots per turn.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
Not to say winged things are not very good indeed (they are), but it always seemed a waste of the flying dakka Tyrants manuverability to shepherd gaunts up the field.
The name refers to facial hair, not playing style.Originally Posted by A news vendor's stand, London, June 1940