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This is my new proposed thread which will supplement the Ork Tacktica article currently in 40K Tactics Work In Progress. The other article deals with Orky units and characters. However i believe that we need another article to go with it for dealing with specific armies as every army will pose problems in a different way.
Feel free to post relevant articles in this thread, I will get round to asking for it to be moved to the relevant section of the forums, but for now lets hear your ideas, and despite the fact that mynameisgrax posts good articles, lets have a variety of helpers if possible!
And also, lets kick start with CHAOS SPACE MARINES first, I'm facing a horde of them soon!
Chaos Marines can be played quite a few ways, but in any case they tend to revolve around assault based troops, powerful HQs, resilient vehicles, and lascannons.
Let's break down the core elements of their armies, and how to deal with each:
1. Assault based troops
Depending on what dark god the Chaos troops worship, they'll have a variety of powers, including numerous attacks, and 5+ invulnerable saves. In fact, most of the chaos elite troops tend to have the invulnerable save, which makes them resilient to powerklaw attacks, but far from invincible.
With trukks, your orks shouldn't have much trouble getting the assault on the Chaos Marines, as the most they can do is assault and destroy your trukk, and more likely than not your troops will be fine, and be able to assault them back next turn. The real danger is when they assault your units of footsloggers. You'll likely take heavy casualties in this case.
On the whole, however, I've found that orks usually win against Chaos in close combat, thanks to powerklaws. Your regular troops are likely to take heavy casualties in the process though, and won't do much damage. Ultimately your boyz are likely to become little more than extra wounds for your nobz w/powerklaws, who will do most of the actual damage. Be sure to include a bosspole, to make sure the unit survives long enough to finish the job.
2. Powerful HQs
The Chaos Lords aren't that scary for orks, but the Demon Princes certainly are, especially ones that have the ability 'lash'. If you're footslogging, this power will be nothing short of a nightmare for your army. Simply put, every round your opponent will be able to pick a unit within 18in of their HQ, and if they pass a psychic test (usually all but guaranteed, considering their high leadership), they move that unit 2d6 inches, and force them to make a pinning test.
Large groups of boyz can ignore the pinning test, but there's no way to avoid being moved, and repeated turns of this will all but guarantee you won't see close combat unless your opponent wishes it. Many Chaos players use two HQs that have Lash, and can basically hold back most footslogging armies indefinitely.
This is why it's better to have a larger number of 20-25 boy units, rather than a fewer number of 30 boy ones. Lash, and other overpowering abilities/shots can only pick one unit per turn, so having more units helps limit their effectiveness. Also, Lash doesn't work on vehicles, so trukks are unaffected. Bikes are affected though, and not immune to the pinning effect of Lash, so be careful.
In close combat, the HQs are less scary. Just keep using powerklaws against them, and they'll fall, just like everything else.
3. Resilient Vehicles
Many Chaos vehicles are quite resilient, especially the land raiders. A popular upgrade allows them to fire a gun per turn, even if they're otherwise not allowed to fire, which is made all the more dangerous by the fact the land raiders have lascannons (more on that later).
With 5th edition rules, glancing hits will not be able to destroy vehicles, making land raiders virtually impervious to rokkits. The best you can really do is immobilize them, unless you can get into close combat, and assault it with powerklaws, tankhammers, or tankbusta bombs.
In any case, the best way to deal with the more resilient AR 13-14 Chaos vehicles is to assault them with powerklaws. The easiest way to do that is with nob bikers, or other fast units that include powerklaws. If you can't assault it, then just try to stay out of line of site of it, possibly see if you can immobilize it, and then concentrate on the rest of his army. Land Raiders are a huge point sink, so if you can wipe out everything else, it doesn't always matter if you destroy the all but invincible tanks (the same principle works with Necron Monoliths as well).
Predators and Vindicators are also dangerous, but not invincible. Still, be wary of them. Personally, I haven't had much trouble with the other Chaos vehicles. Rhinos and Defilers (the Spidery walkers) tend to fall pretty quickly to rokkit fire.
No matter what type of Chaos army you're facing, no doubt they'll be able to fit lascannons in there somewhere, and depending on the army you're using, they'll either be a minor or serious threat.
If you're using a lot of walkers, you'll probably have quite a bit of trouble with them, which is why you should always include a kustom force field in walker heavy lists. With trukks, you just have to be sure to keep them out of sight until you're ready to assault with them. With footsloggers, they shouldn't be a problem, but be sure to keep the nob of the unit away from the front, or else he may be able to snipe him out during the shooting phase, although given the long range of the lascannon, this isn't likely.
Lascannons have 48in range, meaning they're hard to reach by slogging, but within reach of Lootas, if you're using them. This won't mean anything if they're on a Land Raider, but if they're using Havok squads or Obliterators, it means you can fire back.
Obliterators are especially nasty, but fall to powerklaws, if you can reach them. They're just really difficult to destroy with shooting, unless you fire a very large number of shots.
Well, there you go. Those are my experiences with Chaos at least. I hope it helps!
A chaos army generally doesnt have the attrition to stand up to a horde ork army. So if you have the boyz, scores of foot sloggers should be able to grind out whatever they can throw at you, unless the lash of submission is involved. If your opponent likes to use the LoS then horde armies can really take it in the shorts. Then my suggestion would be a speed freaks style list with 4-6 units of boyz mounted in trukks. Back them up with a biker boss, lootas, maybe snikrot and some kommandos to kill oblits hanging out in the back. With this style of army you have to play it smart. Think a turn ahead, what happens if my boyz get blown out of the trukk, what can they do after that? What will i assualt next? Hide the biker boss behind the trukks and then launch him forward at targets of opportunity. He is tough enough that he can generally take a unit all by himself as long as they arent carrying a powerfist. Good luck, dem chaos boyz aint dat dead hard.
Last edited by Evil Moon; May 26th, 2008 at 06:29.
Joe Peshi (lone wolf) kill tally:Lash Sorcerer, Ghazkull, Yriel, Termi Libby, Vulkan.
I play chaos (6 armies) and I play orks (and I'm fairly new at it).
Facing orks with my spiky marines, I win nearly all the time. Most chaos players are power players and they will field 2 troops and a lot of elite, heavy support and HQ. Those player are bound to lose against orks as they don't have the number to do real dammage to hordes armies. Still they will excel against other elite armies (Spaces Marines, Eldars, Tau, etc.). Against these power players, the above will work just fine. Run forward and kill 'em all, using cover on the way. Defilers and vindicators are you main target as they can thin your numbers quite fast, but when they are done, nothing stand in your way. Real power players will use HQ(s) with lash of submission (as stated before), but don't worry, it will work once or twice, then most of your army will be in close combat and this psychic power is worth nothing against engaged units.
Against veteran players, who understand that the best unit in a chaos space marine army are the Chaos Space Marines Units, the game will be harder for the ork player. A good Chaos army will have enough firepower (bolters, defiler's battlecannon, heavy bolter / autocannon) to grind more than half of your army before you even reach the close combat line. Worst of all, you might be the one getting assaulted, or you might assault units in cover, and therefore strike last. Remember that chaos marines are worthy opponents in close combat and if they strike first (you will usualy strike last anyway since orks have a lower initiative), your remaining half army will rapidely become a quarter of army. If playing agains these king of players, your best tactic is to do your best to deny LoS and to Waggh at the right time. Don't try to outshoot it, it's a lost cause. Warphead and big mek are good HQ choice as they can either blast away chunk of the army, or cause multiple waggh ! so you get close up and personnal faster, and therefore reduce your losses.
Good luck !!
CHAOS Undiv.: won 14/22 games EC: 4/7 WE: 6/9 DG: 10/15, TS: 3/7 Orks : 13/20 SM NL : 1/6 TAU: 14 of 24 IG: 3/7
I play against my brother quite a lot and he fields a squad of mega armored nobs that I can't stand, 4 pk attacks each in one turn is just crazy.
anyway, I tend to seperate all my squads into 4 groups of 5, 1 plasma gun and champ w/plasma pistol each to keep cost down.
and if the points allow for it, a defiler and havoc squads, one is anti tank (3 heavy bolters and autocannon) the other is anti tank/horde (1 lascannon/3 missile launchers).
I had the fortune in one game to take a whole ork squad out with a defiler cannon except for one guy, he failed to be hit by the splash.
the plasma generally work pretty well against most stuff so I'd say they would take some lootas to destroy, I just don't like using ork shooting because out of 28 shots, only 4.4 or something hit, then half of that fail to wound, then the armor save...
If they could either fire more shots, or be slightly more accurate that would be great, but these are two things you can always depend on with orks.
If possible please keep the thread solely for those writing reports on facing armies as otherwise it will get crowded. We got Chaos so now I think we need to deal with more of those pesky 3+ save armies run by people who cant use tactics!! Deamonhunters next?
Actually I was wondering instead if people have had experience fighting Tyranids with the new Orks. I would imagine fighting them is a bloodbath and a half!
I only have limited experience with orks against Tyranids, but I will throw out a few suggestions.
1. Dakka Dakka
Orks are a very viable shooting army, despite their low BS. Their sheer number of shots allow them to take down just about anything, and this goes double with Tyranids. Tyranids are the best close combat army in the game, no question, and even a 30 ork unit is going to be left hurting if a full unit of genestealers assaults them. Weaken down the Tyranid forces through shooting first. Large numbers of shots work best, even against most monstrous creatures, although rokkits can work well too, in large numbers. Just watch out for the 2+ saves. Rokkits aren't going to do much to them. It's because of armies like Tyranids, that I prefer shoota boyz over slugga.
2. Beware the sniperfexes
Tyranids can field some very impressive monstrous creatures, and some of them are just as good as shooting as they are in close combats. Be wary of the shooting focused Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants, and make them your primary target. You'd be surprised how much damage they can do from 36in away.
The powerklaw isn't just for Marine killing. All things considered, they're your best shot for dealing with those powerful monstrous creatures. Either roll up a couple trukks or slog those boyz directly into them. Orks ain't scared 'o nuthin. ^_^
When fighting Nids, the rule is the same as it's always been.
Shoot the big ones.
(though if they take warriors shoot them first, they squishy & expensive)
1) if they have a gibbering horde, shoot anything synapse (zoanthropes, warriors, tyrants)
2) if they have 12 monsterous creatures get up close & claw them
3) if its geanstealers, shoot then charge them! they strike first, but specialise in killing elite troops
point to rember: against their combat armies, you get almost 2 orcs per hormagaunt/genestealer
or if its a rare fex combat army, you get 30 orks per their models
Last edited by boo; June 6th, 2008 at 16:19.
I'm not so sure on the big ones tactic. A carnifex is nasty but it can only kill so much a round. Warriors are definitely a priority target though as I think he sure does like using warriors and zoanthropes for that synapse rule. Plus the warriors run around with blast template guns. I hope to kill the wariors off fast so that the rest of his army gets confused!
Check my army list in the forum to see how it can be improved for tonight!