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From the rumoured 5th Edrules (and I realised they are rumoured), what is going to impact the Orks the most? I feel a nice summary would be nice to have to see how GW intend to balance out the Orks as we do suffer from some nasty silly rules at the moment that underpower the army (big mob of orks unable to attack with all models for example?), as if the 6+ save across the board doesn't make us a weaker army in general.
I'd say that it makes orks much more efficient.
Turn 1 Move 6" Run 1d6
Turn 2 Move 6" Fleet 1d6 (or just 6" with the right character) Charge 6"
Turn 2 charges almost every game.... can't beat that
Not to mention that the rumors say that dreads will be able to run.... yummy!
There are both bad and good things for orks in the 5th edition rules, although in some regards, the bad does outweigh the good. This isn't that bad an idea though, as orks are a bit overpowered as they stand, and the new ork codex obviously was created with these changes already in mind. Also, the majority of the changes make logical sense, and there's nothing wrong with making 40k more realistic, in regards to how combat works.
Do only dreads get to run, or all walker vehicles? That really helps dreads for all armies, and if it's all walkers, that helps everyone a great deal, and makes logical sense.
The main changes I've heard, that affect orks are as follows:
1. Everyone can 'run', but only units with fleet can assault the same turn.
This lessens the impact of waughhh, but doesn't kill it. Overall, it gives a lot more power to regular troops, that don't have jump packs or fleet, and allows the orks to hustle. Overall, a very good thing for orks.
2. Glancing hits no longer destroy. Instead of 1-2 shaken, 3 stun, 4 weapon destroyed, 5 immobilized, 6 destroyed; the new chart for glancing hits is 1-3 shaken, 4 stun, 5 weapon destroyed, 6 immobilized.
More than anything else, this new rule seems to hurt the orks the most. Rokkits will no longer be able to destroy armor 14 outright, and the only other options are variable strength guns, which roll a 7 on average. To make matters worse, most ork vehicles will still be able to be destroyed with glancing hits, since they're open topped. With this new rule, assaulting vehicles with powerklaws, tankbusta bombs and tankhammers will become more popular a tactic for dealing with armor.
3. When shooting through units to hit other units, the target unit gets a 4+ cover save.
It hurts, but it's far from crippling. For the most part, you only shoot through a unit to target a unit that's smaller or generally more vulnerable, and in those cases, a 4+ save isn't earth shattering, and against Marines and Necron, it might not be used at all.
4. If a unit shoots out of an open-topped vehicle, then any unit firing at them has a chance of shooting the unit, instead of the vehicle.
Although the exact odds aren't confirmed, it sounds similar to distributing wounds to an artillery unit, with a random chance of hitting the vehicle and a random chance of hitting the guys inside. It's also unconfirmed if the opponent has to roll this chance, or if they can shoot solely at the vehicle if they want. In either case, it hurts burnas, tankbustas and flash gitz a bit, as you'll no longer be able to hide them as effectively in vehicles, at least not if you want to still shoot with them.
5. Independent characters are now target-able, just like any other unit, and automatically join the nearest unit at the beginning of each turn, if one is within 2in of them.
Again, it hurts, but it hurts just about every other army just as much, if not more (okay, maybe not Tyranids, but hear me out). It means you'll need that SAG, KFF, Warboss on bike or Ghazghskull in a unit, when possible. For the most part it isn't that hard, but the SAG is tricky. I've heard some people are planning to attach them to units of grotts, but shoota boyz and lootas also work. Just remember that he'll have to shoot at the same target the rest of the unit fires at, and can only fire if the unit doesn't move.
6. Wounds must be allocated to models before saves are made
This doesn't affect orks too much, and for the most part it's a good thing, although you might want to put either cybork or 'eavy armor on nobz, and in the units of nobz/flash gitz, the painboyz may be in trouble. Of course, in the case of the nobz, they can afford to be taken down a peg.
7. Powerfists/powerklaws no longer count as an extra close combat weapon, and as a result, no longer give the model an extra attack in close combat.
Ouch. Still, it affects marines and IG as well. Tau, Necron, Eldar and Tyranid players are probably celebrating as we speak though. I'll most likely be taking 'attack squig' more often, as a result.
8. Fast vehicles only move 18in at most, instead of 24in.
It hurts orks, but not significantly, as trukks can only move 12in and still deploy troops the same turn. It just means that we'll no longer be able to easily race warbuggies and trukks 24in the first turn, from cover to cover. Of course, bikes and deffkoptas still can. I think.
9. Combat is no longer automatically ended if the units are no longer touching after a casualty is removed.
As far as the new rules go, this is the holy grail for orks that make them all worthwhile. No longer will your opponent be able to take away a model, and prevent your powerklaws from attacking. This rule goes hand in hand with the next rumor...
10. No more 2in rule for close combat. Every member of each unit gets to fight.
It sounds like this is confirmed, which swings the favor away from speed freaks, and over to horde armies. Again, it's far more realistic than the current rules, so the changes are welcome. Just be warned that all large 20+ model units get the same boost as well.
11. Skimmers count as obscured when moving at least 6 inches, which is a 4+ chance of converting a penetrating hit to a glancing hit, instead of the current rule, which automatically converts the pen to a glance.
This is nothing but good for the orks. Let's bring those cheesy flyin' thingies down! ^_^
12. Only weapons of strength 4 or lower count as defensive, when on vehicles.
I almost forgot this one. It hurts everyone, but orks are especially hit hard because orks don't have any weapons strength 4 or lower for their vehicles. In effect, orks have no defensive weapons, meaning they have to stand perfectly still to fire more than one weapon, and when moving over 6 inches, they won't be able to fire any at all (although fast vehicles can move up to 12in and fire a primary weapon). This swings the favor over to deffrollas, which reminds me...
13.Vehicles can now ram units, to cause wounds and/or damage.
I don't have any information on this one though. I've just heard it in passing. It sounds like a good use for trukks, after their passengers have all deployed.
14. Dedicated transports can be used by other units, if the unit their were originally attached to was destroyed.
Again, I haven't heard much beyond the basics.
15. Only troop choices can claim objectives.
Hee hee...BWA HA HA HA HA HA...well actually doesn't exclusively benefit orks, as it takes away our delightfully cheesy 'buggy rush' towards the objectives, but it certainly helps us deal with players that simply plant monstrous creatures, tanks or team of terminators on objectives to claim them, or send infiltrators/scouts onto them from reserves. They can still do that to contest it, I believe, but they can't claim it themselves. Where was I? Oh yes...BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Please let me know if any of these are just random rumors, although until the book actually comes out, we most likely won't know for certain.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; May 27th, 2008 at 20:09. Reason: Forgot a few
A word on point 3, according to other you can shoot theough other units but the target unit then gains a coversave.
Really? It's only just a cover save when shooting through units? If that's the case, then I don't know what everyone's whining about. That's barely an issue at all, at least when compared to the alternative.
I've heart quite a few sources say the 'can't fire at all' rule though, so I'll keep it up, but edit in what you've said.
Thank you for the reply! Has anyone else heard anything?
As far as point three goes, the cover save conferred is 4+.
As far as point six goes you just have to assign wounds to your models evenly. It works much in the same way as the current mixed armor save rule. If your squad of eight takes six wounds, then you must assign each of those wounds to a separate model. In this case six of your models will make saves and two of them will not be in danger. If that squad of eight takes 13 wounds, then five of the models will be forced to make two saves, and three models will make a single save. It is really not that huge of a change from the current torrent of fire rule. If you have a mob of 20 boyz with a nob and they take 19 wounds your nob is still safe from danger.
As far as point ten is concerned I have heard it given as fact just as much as any of the other rules you mentioned. The idea is that they are trying to remove the ability to gain serious advantage through squad arrangement. This is also the reason that you may remove casualties from within a squad that are not in line of sight / range of the shooter.
A word on the first sentence.....overpowered at the moment?? You what?? Assault armies with 3+ saves and gunline armies will still own Orks fairly easily with their 6+ save! And in assault our foottroops can never get enough people into close combat. We need 5th edition to give us that freedom!!
I also must admit that so far we are getting nerfed even more than before in 5th!! Oh god is there no hope for us 6+ save orkies??
Last edited by farmergiles65; May 27th, 2008 at 18:21.
I'm not sure how things are going where everyone else is playing, but at the stores I'm playing at, on average, the orks are taking three of the top four spots in each tournament, and usually taking first place as well. For example, at one of the recent tournaments, orks took first, second and third place (myself as third) and necron got fourth. At the tournaments before and after that one, orks won first place both times. In fact, since the new ork codex came out, only one army has been able to beat out the orks for first place: Chaos.
The new orks are overpowered not because of statistical numbers, but because of five advantages they exploit, that most armies are having trouble dealing with: a powerklaw in virtually every unit, biker nobz, kustom force fields, Snikkrot, and 30 boy squads.
The new rules help even things out, and in my opinion, their 6+ armor save isn't really that much of a disadvantage, considering the fact their high toughness and weapon skill help keep them alive in close combat, and outside close combat, most guns are at least AP 5, and the rest are mostly AP -. Besides in the ork army, how many guns are AP 6? For the most part, it's pretty much just sluggas, shootas and snipers. This makes their 6+ save not that detrimental, and their 4 toughness alone makes up for it.
Anyway, to get back on topic, I approve of the changes to wound allocation and close combat. The ability to take advantage of exactly how the units are positioned doesn't make sense, especially not in futuristic combat.
The 4+ invulnerable save is significant, but still nowhere as detrimental as I thought the change would be, and when fighitng marines/necron, it might not matter at all.
I remembered a few more things, and added them to the list.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; May 27th, 2008 at 19:05. Reason: remembered a few
Orks are certainly shaping up to be one of the dominant 5th edition armies. Just take a look at the latest poll on Bell of Lost Souls
I think this was the plan all along to have 5th edition be a throwback of sorts to 2nd ed and have the Space Marines vs. Orks for the top spot.
It boils down to 5th edition being all about the troops, and that's where orks excel.
Thank you! I forgot about the troops...specifically, that only troops can hold objectives. This is a lot fairer than the 'move bike/buggy into corner on turn 6, claim 750 points' system in 4th edition.
Your 'marines vs orks' theory also has a lot of merit, and is supported by the fact that the new basic 40k set coming out is going to be Space marines vs. Orks.
From what I've heard, it's going to have deffkoptas, plenty of boyz, plenty of marines, and a marine dreadnaught...which leads me to wonder if this means we're finally getting plastic dreads. I hope so...frickin $45 for a hunk of pewter...