Welcome to Librarium Online!
I have a breif question about crissis configurations. While I was over at Advanced Tau Tactica (ATT) I noticed a few players prefer to forgo the standard fireknife team for a team equiped as follows:
Plasma Riflt / Burst Cannon / Multi-Tracker
So my question is how is this suit any better than a Fireknife?
My thoughts are as follows:
ok so I know (3) can be avoided with careful planning but the truth is that seeing every move we should make and when we should make them doesn't always happen during games.
- This suit is only marginally less expensive
- less effective though the whole game then a Fireknife for several reasons. For it to be effective it needs to shoot from 18" away, this hinders its effectiveness in the first few turns, second the fireknife is consistant thought the whole game since its effective range is 36", and third the fireknife gets 1 less shot but that secondary weapon (missile Pod vs burst cannon) has a higher strength and AP.
- Since this suit is only effective at around 12-18" its tied to terrain and once enemies get LOS to this unit (by moving forward past the terrain Crisis is JSJ-ing behind) they are likely in range to atleast shoot if not charge.
Ok so I'm rambling now so I'll finish this up. I think that the fireknife is more effective that the above config.(more forgiving and effective throughout the whole game) for a marginal point increase. Can anyone make a case for the PR/BC/MT config?
Thanks for the help!
I think the Fireknife is simply more versatile than the above configuration. I can't think of any case where I would want a Burst Cannon on a Crisis Suit... you want S5 weaponry, you take Fire Warriors and Stealth Suits, simple as that. There's more than enough of those to go around, especially with 5th edition's soon-to-be reliance on Troop choices (and with the run rule, footslogging Firewarriors may be seen a lot more often). I'd much rather have that Missile Pod to give some long range, high strength support fire and take out lighter vehicles.
well on LO most players outfit their basic shas'ui crisis with either a fireknife config or a Deathrain config. The Plasma rifle/BC suits are rarely taken, mostly because the price drop is marginal (2 points?) The range is much lower, and because taking burst cannons on suits is usually a waste.
Tau players already have a quite a few str5 ap5 weapons in our army, usually in the form of Firewarriors or stealth. However what we lack are high str low ap weapons, which we can get nowhere else in our army. Missile pods are the best option to take out light vehicles (rhinos..) and trading them for a (very) marginal increase in anti infantry power seems like a waste.
just my 2 cents
-A tau, dark eldar and slaanesh csm player
-And always on LO chat..
i don't use burst cannons anywhere in my army at all.
i dont think it sucks or anything, they simply dont bring anything to the table that isn't already there (s5 ap5 shots.) The problem isn't that you're wasting points on burst cannons, it's that you're wasting a weapons slot (on the crisis) which could have been used for better weapons. these weapon slots are vital (not to mention limited) as there are a host of weapons in the arsenal only crisis suits can take.
That suit config is supposedly a better MEQ killer than the fireknife, but so technically is the rice paper cannon, but it relies to much on luck for me. (ie having some). The fireknife is the main configuration because it is the easiest to use. If you shoot at anything its guns will hurt it. However i do not use it on any of my suits bar one of my shas'el's. I find it far to multi purpose, prefering to take two teams specialising in each of the weapons. Deathrains for MP's, Burning eyes for PR's. Harder to use in a way, more expensive, but oh so much more deadly!
The only suit that i would warrant taking a BC on, is a Shas'vre equipped with the AFP, giving him Twin linked BC's and a hard-wired MT allows him to be a fairly cheap guant killer, and can punch holes in a guard line if they let him close enough. Again this is a massivly specialised suit, and its roll is mainly indirect support for FW's, the BC's are just there to complement the range and purpose of the AFP.
Range is a significant issue for myself. The BC forces you inside 18" with your Crisis, and the only time you want to get close with XV-8s is with a Fusion Blaster. So what if the BC is one more shot than the MP? MEQs get a save either way.
If you really want an "anti-MEQ" dedicated elite suit, go for the Burning Eye(twin PRs). Yeah, its a bit more expensive; but judicious JSJ can ensure you drop half a Tactical Squad every turn.
And as was mentioned, why not lose one shot for the long ranged anti-armor that the MP gives you?
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
As can be seen from the above the Firestorm is actually a better suit fit and the guide at ATT is a very good treatise on why it is decent. As I said above though I prefer Plasma's AP.Originally Posted by rikimaru
In 4th I have pretty much foregone every other elite suit other than the Deathrain TA, why? Well I just find the elite Fireknife to compromised and the Burning Eye way to expensive for what it does. The Helios needs some serious skill and experience to use on a non IC XV8. For the points the Deathrain TA is quite simply the most useful suit build available (in 4th edition).
XV8's quite simply are not great for MEQ killing and I rely more on my FW, Stealth's, Kroot and Submunitions to do that job. In my view the XV8 have only a few jobs (a) Slow opponents forces down and this is done by stopping transports and (b) Take down or slow down/prevent from shooting vehicles. I also use the DR to take down stuff like Dreads and MC's when transports are stopped (this is best done from a distance and with highly accurate weaponry, both a requisite of the Deathrain).
I actually giggle silently when I see the XV8 put forward as the answer or main component/backbone of an anti MEQ list. The problem with it is the XV8 is to expensive when taken in numbers sufficient enough to make a dent in a MEQ list (and trust me you need numbers). You are much better stopping MEQ lists movement, having sufficient markerlight support to make Fire Warriors, Subs and Stealth's potent enough to take down MEQs and using the XV8's as the last nail in the coffin of a MEQ unit reduced by other units.
Lastly a word on ATT, it is a decent site but it tends towards elitism, this inevitably leads to the championing of the more exotic units/models/weapons etc. It also tends to lead to the denigration of the more widely used stuff. Problem is the more widely used stuff is more widely used because it usually works. If elitism is what you want (and nothing wrong with that) then ATT is for you, if you want straight forward advice on what works then go for LO or Tau online.
So it is quite hard to make a case for the Firestorm, if you want anti MEQ then configure your whole force for the task (not just rely on XV8's), if you want transport killers then use the Deathrain TA, if you want an all rounder (though inevitably a compromised one) then go Fire knife Multi. If you are determined to use a BC on an XV8 then go Firestorm, though it has to be asked "why would you want a BC on an XV8?"
The fact that practically every other unit in our army has a S5 ap5 gun is what shies me away from using a BC on a crisis suit. I mean, honestly, the three guns that don't have this statline as a minimum in our army are the AFP, Flamer and Kroot rifle! Plus, with the cost of the PR/BC/MT crisis suit you could have two stealth suits, who are arguably harder to kill, can infiltrate, and are better specialized to their specific use.
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.