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Thread: Yuck

  1. #1
    Senior Member Courtsloth's Avatar
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    Yuck

    I played a tourny this weekend (with my Tau) and in the last round came up against an Ork list so lacking for creativity it turned my stomach. 8 Trukks w/Boyz + NobKlaw and 2 Trukks w/Nobz + Warboss... That's is... I lost the match - corner deployment left me buntched up and closer to him than I wanted, he got 1st turn, cluster****ed me, I tried to break one flank and escape (highly mobile Crisis + Devilfish list) but the dice just weren't with me (destroyed all but 2 Trukks, but then missed both my ordinance Railhead rolls /grumble...) but the point is: THAT WAS THE LEAST FUN THING TO PLAY AGAINST EVER. I've been tooling around w/theorycraft for the Orks for a while now, soliciting a lot of help from you guys here on the forums and whatnot (/nod to Grax especially) and painting models as I build the army, but this one experience has me dead set to never leave an opponent with that same bad taste in his mouth that I suffer from now. Orks have so many options, and I understand that spam is a play style (though I am loath to give it even that much credit), but we also have huge capability for combined-arms lists which can function under fire, be flexible, win through the skill of the player rather than repetition and luck of conditions. Please, members of this board, take this message to heart: Orks are a fun list, both in their fluff and their options, and it's our job to bring that fun to the table.

    Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.

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  3. #2
    Normal member Fox D: Toastee's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity what was your list and how many boyz were in his units?
    Want to chat? You can normally find me in the LO CHAT!
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Courtsloth's Avatar
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    I played:

    2x Plas/Missile Commanders

    3x 3 Crisis TL Missile Pod teams

    2x 12 Fire Warriors mounted in Warfish (Devilfish w/Burst Cannon + Smart Missiles)

    7 Gun Drones

    2 Broadsides

    2x Hammerhead (Railguns + Smart Missiles)

    He played:

    2x Warbosses (Power Klaw, Eavy Armor, Cybork...)

    2x 7-8 Nobz (1-2 Power Klaws, Trukk, Eavy Armor, Painboy, Cybork, Bosspole, Eavy Weapons)

    8x 12 Boyz (Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Trukk)

    ...upgrades are estimated for his list and mostly omitted for Tau - they get technical and I don't remember them all off the top of my head.
    Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.

  5. #4
    Senior Member farmergiles65's Avatar
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    Hmm sorry to hear that you got beaten by a cheese list. Gives us Orks a bad name.

  6. #5
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    That sucks

    Thanks for the nod! ^_^

    How did he legally use 8 troop choices, by the way? Was there no limit in the tournament?
    Anyway, I think the problem isn't so much that there are cheesy ork lists, but that there are 'cheesy' lists in general. The only reason it stands out with orks is because they haven't been considered even remotely cheesy for so long.

    For many years, being an ork player meant you loved the concept/fluff of orks, the fun modeling options of the army, and the ridiculously over-aggressive strategy, even in the face of unfavorable odds.

    Now orks are as competitive as any other army, and for ork fans, that's kind of sad. I've been a long time ork fan myself, but I never played as them because I couldn't afford (at the time) an army with so many models in it. Eventually I got a real job, and I could finally pick up that army, just as the new codex came out...

    Suddenly I was considered one of 'those' players. I was grouped with the people who jump on the bandwagon and play any army that's popular or cheesy at the moment. Things evened out a little when people realized I was fairly mellow, and I even won a 'sportsmanship' award at a local tournament.

    To get back on topic, orks are considered cheesy right now because there are several powerful lists out there that are either exploiting the rules, have very few models in them, or don't require much strategy in order to win, as they're generally difficult to deal with no matter how you play them (like the trukk list you mentioned).

    At some point in time every army in 40k has been in this position. When the new Tyranid codex came out, they were considered cheesy (mostly due to synapse). When the new Eldar and Tau codexes came out, the over-abundance of skimmers made them cheesy. Hell, Marines had been considered cheesy for as long as 40k was out, and now you don't see them in the finals quite as often...except for Chaos, with their incredibly cheesy new codex.

    Now it's the orks turn, and the only reason it stands out is because they've never really been cheesy. It's a first. Rules will change (really soon, actually), armies will get new codexes (in the upcoming Space Marine codex, I've heard there's a new Land Raider variant that has 2 hell cannons, like those on hellhounds, and a assault cannon...that'll be a regular ork killing machine), and players will adapt.

    Opponent running lots of trukks? Use indirect/guess weapons, and weapons that shoot lots of shots at 36in range. They swamp you anyway? Field kitted out close combat units that can stand up to a trukk full of boyz. Better yet, use Snikkrot, and surprise him with a nasty late game surprise.

    Just don't be cheesy. That's never fun, and if you're not having fun, then what's the point in playing? ^_^
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  7. #6
    Murder omgitsduane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    Just don't be cheesy. That's never fun, and if you're not having fun, then what's the point in playing? ^_^
    here here!

    But if he didn't know he was going to vs a super cheesey list he couldn't adapt so late notice.

  8. #7
    Charitably Tables People MVBrandt's Avatar
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    I don't think you can have 10 trukks in a list ... I have 9 and I'm pretty sure that's the max. Also, three of those are nobz squads in trukks.
    Nids & Guard
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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    That Tau list should have easily been able to take out a Trukk-spam list.

    Three Deathrain teams? Railguns? Submunition rounds? More than enough firepower to take out the Trukks and then the Boyz.

    I honestly can't see how you had so much trouble with that list, and I don't think it's cheesy by any stretch of the imagination.

    It's not cheese. It's Orks.

  10. #9
    Senior Member LordTrebor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    I honestly can't see how you had so much trouble with that list, and I don't think it's cheesy by any stretch of the imagination.

    It's not cheese. It's Orks.
    Two Warbosses? Not very fluffy. Orks just don't do the whole power sharing thing. And that goes for you nob biker lists too. Other than that I don't see too much of a problem with it. Lots of boyz in trukks is fine. both fluffy and non cheese wise. i think i heard somewhere that one man's cheese is another man's tactics. but that's my two teef.
    My award winning Orky tale


  11. #10
    Senior Member Courtsloth's Avatar
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    @ Grax: It was 6 Boyz squads, not 8 (my bad - haven't slept for a couple of days >.>)

    @ Nemesis: I agree, the match should have been a cake walk, and was close as is, but a couple things conspired against me: corner deployment forced me into a tiny little section of the board in order to be out of turn 1 assault range, I lost the roll for turn one and was instantly boxed into my itty-bitty deployment zone, and then on my turn I tried to use the Crisis suits and warfish to disable all his trukks (got all but 2) and then use the ordinance and the fire warriors to clear an evac route down one flank - could have worked, but the dice just weren't there. As is, he beat me by 650ish points which I consider not bad for Tau trapped in CC on turn 2 - I took a hell of a toll on his forces.

    To all: I love Orks and will be the first one here to defend them against cries of cheese. Also, I don't denounce my opponent's list as cheese or 'broken' - my gripe is that it played like a 'Fischer Price My-First-Army'. Against a poor player or one trapped by circumstance it should be an easy win because it is overly repetitious (it literally used only three unit entries out of the whole book @ 1850pts.), but against a competent opponent it should be an easy list to break up and deal with because it is such a one trick pony. My hope is simply that other Ork players do not fall to the same temptation - these lists play on auto-pilot, they are zero fun to play against, and god help me I can't see how they're any fun to play with either.
    Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.

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