Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I've recently found the concept of Big Gunz quite awesome.
Zzap guns are pretty much out of the question. With 2D6 strength, they're about as likely to get S3 as they are S10; definately not something that can ever be relied upon.
So that leaves Kannons and Lobbas. Both have issues.
The Kannon, first of all, can either fire a S8 AP3 shot, essentially a Missile Launcher shot, out to 36" (all of this info is available on the Ork ref sheet on GW website, so shouldn't be a problem to post). It can also fire a S4/AP5 blast weapon, essentially a frag missile. Actually, in all respects, it's a Missile Launcher... except shorter-ranged... *gets interesting conversion ideas*.
Anyway, the Lobba however is a 48" Barrage weapon, meaning it can fire out of LOS and causes pinning. It is S5/AP5.
So the Kannon has the benefit of being able to take on armour, power armour or infantry; it also benefits from Grots super-cool BS3 meaning it has Guardsman-like accuracy (if you can call it accuracy) when shooting at vehicles. However, at 36", it's outranged by a lot of things; by the time it's in range to fire, it itself will be in range to be shot at with everything from heavy bolters, multilasers, scatterlasers, essentially all sorts of dirty weapons that can easily tear apart 3 guns sitting looking at you.
The Lobba has better anti-infantry capabilities and causes pinning. It can fire out of LOS and has a 48" range.
If one were hard-pressed, which might one choose? Which has been more useful in your peoples' experience?
Takka n' Wakka's Dakka Attacka! 33W / 6L / 1D
Most people will say it's depends or your army and what your playing
(though i know some will say "get lootas")
If the people in your area mostly play marines/armour lists then kannon is the only thing that'll hurt them, and it costs 66% of a lobba
if they using swarmys armys, the lobba is genraly better as it gets a bigger template, but will cause barrage when all 3 fire at once, meaning only 1 can posibly get a dirrect hit (and even then is unlikley) also kannons can still hurt swarms a bit also with the fraggy shot
it's also preference, and as you can guess, i prefer kannons, as more usefull for the rest of my army (gretchin,gretchin,gretchin... um... more gretchin) but if you use lootas or tankbustas, you'll find them less usefull than i would
best plan: try 'em out, see what happens
I would say Lobbas for the ability to fire from out of LoS, though having said that, a battery of Kannons in some ruins or a bunker would benifit from decent cover saves... mind you, that is dependent on actually having decent enough cover to deploy in. So it probably isn't all that reliable.
I think in the end, at least for me, the pros and cons of both seem to cancel out the pros and cons of the other.
Want to chat? You can normally find me in the LO CHAT!
LO CHAT! JOIN US NOW AND BECOME A GOD OF BACON.
Kannons seem like a compromise to me. The train of thought goes something like this:
Get Lootas. Don't have the points and/or spare cash for Lootas?
Then get rokkit buggies. Think they're overpriced in real $$$ (you're right), or you don't have fast attack slots open?
Then get killa kans. They're also overpriced? Then convert them out of barrels, extra guns and empty sprues. Don't have barrels, or have nearly no points to spare?
Then use kannons.
Kannons are dirt cheap, and they can be quite effective, but at the same time, there are many better anti-armor and anti-infantry options out there, considering a kannon team will most likely be running after a single casualty, and spending a lot of points beefing up the unit counter-acts the point of using big guns. If you've got a small amount of remaining points and 1-3 open heavy spots, then a kannon can work quite well.
To me, Lobbas are a completely different type of unit. You can hide them effectively, and don't need line of sight. For the orks, this is basically the only indirect fire option they have, and for their price, it's a bargain.
The catch is, no one needs Lobbas. No matter what type of list you're running, Lobbas won't win the day, cripple your opponent's army, or make them tremble in fear. It's not a bad unit at all, especially when taken in threes, and buried deep behind the lines, but I would only use them if the necessities were already chosen.
Lobbas and Kannons are simply 'extras'. Both have their uses, and can work very well, but I'd never cut out a trukk or footslogger unit to use them...and to be honest, I'd probably use Lootas first. ^_^
I'd have to disagree. Rolling to hit with BS 3 and kannons never works out for me. Because I've gotten pretty good at guessing ranges for my lobbas, I can effectively remove up to 60 points of my friends space marines -per turn- with my lobbas that are hidden behind terrain. against IG, lobbas can cripple command platoons, and effectively turn 10 guardsmen into 5 or less so you can stop worrying about them being scoring units. STR 5 is not to be underestimatedThe catch is, no one needs Lobbas. No matter what type of list you're running, Lobbas won't win the day, cripple your opponent's army, or make them tremble in fear. It's not a bad unit at all, especially when taken in threes, and buried deep behind the lines, but I would only use them if the necessities were already chosen.
just as a note, you don't need to guess the range for guess range weapons, they just don't require line of sight & scatter slightly more
Second, you're right too. I still don't believe an army 'needs' lobbas, but you don't really need kannons either, as they miss a good amount of the time, even with BS 3. It's up to you want in your list. I was just saying that if your list is lacking anti-armor, the kannons will help. Lobbas will help if your list is lacking in anti infantry...but what ork list is lacking in anti-infantry? ^_^
I agree with Grax's hiearchy of anti-armor. although I say lootas and buggies are tied in awesomeness. seriosley you can convert both of them pretty easily. one of my rokkit buggies is an ork bike I made into a trike decked out with lots of extra armor bitz and land speeder tornado rockets. got extra marine bitz like assault cannons or heavy bolters? make em into lootas. I made one by glueing a scout sniper rifle to a shoota and adding a bayonett and another scope. the feakier looking the better.
sorry for the rant. anyway back to business. I prefer lobbas, if only for the conversion possibilities (fantasy orc or empire bitz?). you could field a really fluffy and cool looking snakebite army with that setup. my two teef
My award winning Orky tale
That's the way you do it. Seriously, $25 for a single warbuggy?!!! That's only $5 less than the newer trukks, which are roughly ten times the size of the warbuggy model. It's insane.
I found my warbuggies cheap on ebay, but converting them out of bikes is cheap and easy, and if I was starting all over again, that's what I'd do.
To get back on topic, both kannons and lobbas work great for their cost, but after a few games trying them out, I'm preferring Killa Kans over Kannons. The kannons are cheaper, but the Killa Kans have more staying power, and can tear up enemies in close combat. I gave a Tyranid player a nasty surprise last week, when 3 killa kans held off a genestealer brood lord by themselves for most of the game.
Also, Killa Kans can use kustom mega blastas, which I think are worth the extra points. In the same game (it was a team game) I had a team of grey knight terminators bearing down on me, and I realized that I had nothing in my army to deal with them. Nothing was AP 2 (all rokkits or Loota fire), and my nobz would get slaughtered, since those Terminators strike with strength 6 at initiative 4. If I gave the kans some kustom mega blastas, they wouldn't have been a problem. My side still won the day, but I wound up backing away from the terminators until the last turn.
My point? When I say kannons are more 'necessary' I'm not saying that kannons are better than lobbas. I'm saying that in an ork army, anti-armor and low AP weapons are more valuable than indirect fire. Overall, a team of lobbas will probably kill more for you than kannons, but it isn't how much they kill, it's what they kill. Sure, the lobbas can kill troops, but so can your boyz. The real problem is armor 12-14.
Problem with Lootas is the new rules for cover. Most of what you are shooting at will either be in CC, obscured by your own troops, or obscured by enemy screen troops. So you're relying on a random die roll for rate of fire, then rolling on BS 2, then probably getting past a 4+ cover save. I just think Lootas aren't worth it no more. I'm still tempted by 3 Kannons or 3 Lobbas, purely because I can't afford the money or the major hassle of assembling/painting the dam things for the sake of 40 points each for the Killa Kans.
Does leave me with no heavy support though. Dreads I feel die to easily plus are expensive and a bastard to put together/paint, battlewagons are now too expensive, flash gitz always sucked, and looted wagons aren't worth 100+ points for essentially a weak Leman Russ.