Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
So I played a 5th ed game yesterday as Tau, but as we were playing i was coming across rules that seemed to really screw over the Tyranids. Rules such as:
no consolidating into other squads,
1. rending nerfed
2. vehicle damage charts into just 1, meaning glancing hits are even weaker now
3. when losing combat even tyranids have to take armor saves
As i want to play Tyranids, what are you veterans out there gonna do to still play efficiently? The benefits I see are:
1. the cover saves, valuable units are now screened, so upgrades such as EC on genestealers aren't as necessary
2. Carnifexes can RUN!
3. hit vehicles in combat easier now (depending on movement)
Personaly i believe Tyranids don't have it as bad as some other armies might. Screening is nice, hitting vehicles in combat is nicer, blast weapons (Deathspitters and Barbed Stranglers were already nice to have) are a bit better, tons of things.
The rending nerf hit anyone who used Genestealers and a broodlord, like myself, pretty hard. But its not a game breaking change. Peircing armor with a Carnifex using a Venom Cannon (The ussual way to do it for Nids) wont work as well since VC can only glance vehicles unless they are open topped. We'll just have to get creative. Deathspitters might work for anti-tank, even fleshborers can pierce rear/side armor.
Besides, we're Tyranids. We'll just out-evolve the nerfs and devour them too.
Out of all the units genestealers are hurt the least by the rending nerf because they can reroll to hit.
I believe you have to outnumbered by 2 to 1 to have to take armor saves, which doesn't seem too likely.
Last edited by frozencore; June 17th, 2008 at 22:09.
It's not that bad with the VC as long as we can prevent that tank from shooting at us, that's why we took a VC in the first to stun tanks, every turn they don't shoot is good for us to bring those fex's closer.
We can get around the rending change easier than other others, we can add attacks to our staler and improve their chances of hitting, no other unit with rending can do that.
"The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
I think in some areas Tyranids will have problems but in some other things will be easier. Synapse control has always been a huge problem as we try to move our synapse creatures up the table and we have always been too dependent on the winged Hive tyrant to provide it quickly. With the new rules it will be possible to send synapse creatures up the table much more easily and control our broods. Also we won't be so dependent on leaping or winged to make our Tyranid warriors go quickly. Leaping and winged are well known for eating all our points, without them being so needed we will have more points to spend on more Tyranid warriors.
Also running will mean that close combat type creatures will be far more effective. Things like a Carnifex or a Hive tyrant equiped only for assault will be useful again, possibly even useful cheap alternatives to the shooty types. Also with close combat Hive tyrant in mind using warpblast won't be such a problem now. As warpblast uses a blast a high BS isn't as needed. This also means the rule about not using it on maximum power with enhanced senses isn't that much of a problem as enhanced senses aren't needed to make it work with as blast anymore.
There are also options such as having a Carnifex using the shock troops rule and acting in elites with a barbed strangler and rending claws. The rending claws are useless on a Carnifex but the barbed strangler is very useful. With enhanced senses no longer desperately needed to hit with a barbed strangler this is the kind of additional firepower we did not have before. There are also things like the Broodlord. Currently the Broodlord is only useful if the mission allows infiltration, if it does not the Broodlord is too slow to be likely to very useful. In addition he needs a brood of Genestealers which can't fleet of claw with the Broodlord in tow. Now the Broodlord will be more flexible.
I think that in some ways the current Tyranid swarms will take a bit nasty hit with these new rules. The rending of Genestealers or anything else for that matter isn't as good. The hallowed Sniperfex with it's venom cannon and barbed strangler will no longer be the quite the high performance anti-tank weapon we are used to.
However getting our other big nasties into assault with tanks will now be much easier, or it will be quite possible instead of really hard. There are huge benefits for streamlining things like Tyranid warriors and making much better use of thier synapse power, this in turn will help us use cheap lesser creatures more easily. I think the new rules may require us to make some adjustments but there are many new things to take advantage of, personally from what I can tell the new rules will make Tyranids act much more like Tyranids with a greater need to use assault but also an easier time using it.
Last edited by Leech; June 17th, 2008 at 23:37. Reason: Spelling and ' I didn't realise I banged on that long!'
I think there are going to be some new, fun units with the 5th ed nids. The two I plan on using are:
Carnifex: barbed strangler, scything talons--113
Carnifex: 2x scything talons, scyth tail, toxic miasma, tusked, adrenal gland (WS)--138(?)
the first is the tank killer, who will also be able to bomb troops; it is like a low budget defiler that is more durable.
The second will be nasty, especially because the enemies will counterattack when it charges them...if it gets the charge you are looking at 7-9 monsterous attacks.
I figure I will use 2 of each, and some zoans...that should cover anti tank still leaves me an elite slot for dakka warriors or a lictor.
I don't think I'm going to like a nerf to genes I love those guys. Genes are great
But that "budget defilers" idea sounded cool
Tyranids Win / Draw /Lost 
Daemon Hunters Win / Draw / Lost 
well with the vemon cannon if it can still get crew stunned and crew shaken efficiently il stil use it if not ill give my carnifexs something else like a death splitter str 7 meh can still do some damdge
But the thing is i always ed loved Zoanthropes and now that vemon cannons might not work i might have to take 3 of them.
As an Experienced Shootie list player i wont really like the idea of increasing close combat as i hate that on nids
and i dont care about rending since genstealers are too much points for my eyes
though i was thinking of trying a stealer list once i have fully brought all my shootie list army and seen how the new rules can deal with how stealer or shootie list works ill have to tweak them alot and ill ask you guys to help me ?
hmm only 24 Days left till there legal rules
Lower on the Carnifex page there is an example called Thornback. The Thornback uses a barbed strangler which costs more points that the cost of a barbed strangler with toxin sacs. This gives the Carnifex a barbed strangler with three points costs.
To be fair and not go too easy or too hard on our selves we must use the middle points value, that is the cost of a barbed strangler with toxin sacs. We should pay this regardless if we take toxin sacs. This does annoy but an opponent can fairly point out that if the points value is unclear we should pay the absolute highest instead of paying the lowest just because it suits us to have cheaper weapons. This also means you will need to give it rending claws instead of scything talons if you want to use it in elites.
Last edited by Leech; June 18th, 2008 at 20:33.