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I was wondering what peoples experiences are with the following Ork models and troop selections as these I don't tend to see in very many lists.
Ork Nobz in Mega Armour (personally If i used them I'd like 4-6 in a trukk)
Ork Kommandos without Snikrot (as I think hes not as good in 5th but I might be wrong)
Ork Stormboyz (seem a bit fragile for 12 points IMO)
Ork Big Gunz (varying types though with 5th Ed coming I want to get 3 Lobbas)
Ork Warboss (on bike or without)
Also how many points do people like to wait before taking 2 HQ choices? HQ choices can fetch up a lot of points but not make them back.
From what I've heard with infiltrating in 5th, if you hold the squad in reserve it comes in from 1 of the 2 side table edges. This still make Snikrot worth it as you can come in from any edge of your choice. However, Kommandos without Snikrot in 5th are vert appealing.Ork Kommandos without Snikrot (as I think hes not as good in 5th but I might be wrong)Gah! Never doubt the Stormboyz! Possibly my favorite unit, a squad of 20 boyz moving between 13 and 18 inches while flying over terrain and then assaulting, oh yea they are worth it. I generally hold them back for a turn, see where the rest of my boyz need backup and the storm boyz zoom in. Some might argue that trukk boyz are just as fast, but those trukks don't fly over terrain.Ork Stormboyz (seem a bit fragile for 12 points IMO)No experience with them...Ork Big Gunz (varying types though with 5th Ed coming I want to get 3 Lobbas)Good on foot, extrordinary on a bike w/ PK. High toughness, max strength and zooming around at 12" or turbo-boosting 24", a biker boss is nasty!Ork Warboss (on bike or without)I generally play 1500 point games and use 2 HQs from time to time. Any less than that though and its generally must 1 HQ for me.Also how many points do people like to wait before taking 2 HQ choices? HQ choices can fetch up a lot of points but not make them back.
Monkey's Killer Kan WiP (Updated 4/29)
Let's go troop by troop:
1. Meganobz are very situational. A rumor I heard is that in 5th edition, there's errata that gives the meganobz 3 wounds each. Against regular troops, they're even better than terminators, thanks to the extra wounds and comparatively lower cost (after factoring in the powerklaw).
Against monstrous creatures and power weapons, they're unfortunately very feeble. The fact they always attack last, combined with their lack of numbers, painboy or cybork weakens them greatly. Attaching Mad Doc Grotznik helps counter the painboy and cybork problems, but for that cost, you're probably better off using nob bikers instead.
The new wound allocation rules favor them though, as you don't have to worry about the painboy and powerklaws getting singled out. Also, they don't lose anything from the new powerklaw rules, as they never counted the powerklaw as a close combat weapon. Also, I heard a rumor that 'slow and purposeful troops' now get the +1 attack on charge.
All in all, meganobz are a 'buget' option, but they can be very effective, especially when held back in a trukk, for counter-assault. They just can't deal with the bigger opponents very well. I use them, but only in smaller lists, or in lists that have at least one other team of nobz.
2. I think everyone's over-reacting to the infiltrator changes. Yes, infiltrators can now come off from reserves onto the side board edges, but it's RANDOM which of the two you get to come off from. 1-2 left side, 3-4 right side, 5-6 you choose. Okay, that's not completely random, but I like guarantees, and Snikkrot is guaranteed.
Snikkrot allows you to come off of any edge, and you get to choose which one. That's still very very significant, especially for contesting objectives, and dealing with those pesky IG and Tau back lines.
3. 13-18 inch movement is nothing to sneeze at...and can people in jump packs run? I haven't heard anything about that. Anyway, they're especially useful against long range anti-armor lists, which eat up trukks pretty easily.
Yes, they're fragile. Very fragile. They're still very good at what they do. If you can string them along so they stay within 6in of a KFF, all the better.
4. I actually see quite a few big gunz units, although I haven't seen many zzzap guns. Kannons and Lobbas are fairly popular, although most serious lists only use them 'bare-bones' without any upgrades or extras. Kannons are usually played with one kannon per unit, as a dirt cheap 'distraction', and lobbas are usually played 3 per unit, to maximize their effectiveness.
Before writing them off, look at it this way: Kannons cost 20 points and a Killa Kan with a rokkit costs 50. Not only does the kannon cost less than half that of the Kan, it also has 36in range, as opposed to the Kan's 24in range. Yes, the Kan has more staying power, but only marginally so.
Big gunz are very cost effective and fun, but they're too fragile to make or break an army. They're simply for when you've got extra points and heavy slots to use up, and you want more firepower in your army. Even if your opponent wipes them off the board, that's an entire turn of shooting gone, with only 20 points to show for it.
5. Seriously? I see warbosses all the time, especially at lower point levels. Of course, I rarely see them on foot. Most people play warbosses on bikes, although some keep them on foot an attach them to regular nobz. In any case, they always need a powerklaw, or else they're a joke.
The main appeal of the warboss isn't his close combat power, but the fact it allows you to use nobz as troops. With the new rules regarding objectives, where only troops can claim them, nobz are better than ever...
Alright, the wound allocation rules kind of screw them, as the powerklaws and painboyz are no longer safe. Also, I heard that AP 1 and AP 2 weapons ignore all FNP rolls now, regardless of strength.
I wouldn't use 2 HQs unless you absolutely need them, since the points are usually better spent on troops and elites. I wouldn't use 2 in anything less than 1500, but honestly, 2000 might be better for orks. Their HQs aren't as necessary as in other armies.
Well I'm the only Ork player in my region but when I look at lists I dont tend to see many warbosses unless they are on a bike, problem is if you want a boss doing that, you generally want a unit of bikes to put him with and more and more they are losing their appeal to me and I'm not a fan of putting all my eggs in one basket with Nob Bikers. However I do have 6 bikes, so would be a shame to lose them.
Meganobz may be tempting with the new objective rules. I'm not sure Nobz on foot have enough staying power and on bikes they cost a bomb! But I'm still tempted by 4-6 Meganobz in a trukk. If Nobz are on foot how many do you generally put in a squad and do you give them the full painboy/cybork upgrades like with bikers?
Still tempted by 3 Lobbas, if only they were cheaper to obtain and no one sells them on Ebay most of the time!
Kommandos are a work in progress due to been forced to convert half the models due to 5 models for £13.50 been a bit much, but I do intend to use them. How do people generally convert Snikrot?
Stormboyz a bit expensive to get hold of so may leave them out. Besides I got enough ork boyz as it is including burna boyz and lootas.
Yes, lobbas are expensive, but why buy them? I threw together three makeshift guns out of some Tau and Imperial Guard heavy weapons, and random parts like boxes and stands.
None of my stormboyz are actual 'stormboyz'. I just found several rokkit-shaped things or bombs (my favorite is giant stick of dynamite) and glued those to the backs of boyz.
Kommandos just require a creative paint job, although technically they're supposed to have stikkbombs as well. I picked up a box of stikkbomb boyz on sale and used those. For style, I've glued imperial guard backpacks onto a few as well.
The only special units I purchased were bikes, lootas, burnas and tankbustas. The bikes and tankbustas are the old variety though, and the burnas/lootas were constructed from the reasonably priced burna/loota sets (although I used spare torsos and legs from regular boyz to get the most out of each set).
Anyway, on to nobz. Never, ever run nobz on foot. They'll be shot to pieces long before they reach close combat. The best option is a trukk with a ram, as it's cheap, fast and rarely dangerous. Battlewagons also work, but they're very expensive, and probably a better option for 'shooty' troops...although with 5th edition rules, that might change. We'll have to see.
Yes, nob bikers are definitely a risk, but overall, they're the most powerful and versatile unit in the ork army. They literally can do it all, but they're priced appropriately, and can be shot down by strength 8+ weapons fairly easily.
Regular nobz are a safer bet, but don't have much advantage over two separate trukks filled with boyz, and both options cost about the same. 8 nobz w/2 powerklaws, wauggh banner in a trukk = 7 dead marines. 2 trukks of slugga boyz, each with nob + powerklaw = 7-8 dead marines (it depends how many orks the marines managed to kill before the orks attacked.
Nobz have a lot of staying power, and take fewer casualties than normal boyz, allowing them to effectively win combat after combat (trukks are usually only good for one solid victory each, unless you gang up on your opponent...which you should ^_^).
Biker nobz are popular because of their versatility, speed, resilience, and close combat power. Regular nobz are cheaper, but inferior in virtually every regard. Mega nobz are cheapest, and although they have a LOT of close combat power, they're only useful in situations where their lack of speed, invulnerable saves and low initiative won't be crippling.
Honestly, of the three types, regular nobz are my least favorite. Why? Because there's nothing they can do that regular trukk boyz can't...except perhaps serve as a powerful retinue for a warboss. Still, I'd rather put that boss in mega armor and a cybork body, and give a team of meganobz a better leadership score and a bosspole.
This is the way I run them:
4-5 Meganobz in a red trukk with a ram, ideally with a warboss w/mega armor, cybork, bosspole, and perhaps an attack squig.
8-10 Noby in a trukk with a ram, 2-3 powerklaws, painboy, cybork, wauughh banner, bosspole, and ideally with a warboss w/powerklaw, cybork, 'eavy armor (No 'Eavy armor on the nobz though, I don't believe it's worth 5 points a model...although the new wound allocation rules may change my mind).
5-8 Nob bikers with the same setup as the regular nobz. I wouldn't use 5 unless I'm attaching a warboss though, and the more, the better. Yes, it costs more, but when you've sunk so much cost into a unit, it pays to protect your investment. More than 8 is excessive though. For those points, I'd rather look into playing 2 units 6 nob bikers each.
I don't have all that much to add, but I have a way to get cheap lobbas and kannons-I think I remember there being a sort of mortar-like device of west wind produxions, but in the US, there are all sorts of 1700's-1800's artillery (Revolutionary war/the Alamo/American Civil war, etc.) and with sufficient bulking out and glyphs, they look like primitive mortars and cannons.
-that is all
Asking for suggestions without knowing what you're planning on doing is like asking a blind man what color shirt matches your eyes.
Just wanted to toss in my 2 bits (as the topic of the thread has already been addressed).
A.) I think the only reason stormboyz don't see more play is because the 3 split rokkit buggies option is so popular. That not withstanding, stormboyz are an excelent option (best taken in large numbers).
B.) I'm really interested to see how Mega-Nobz would fare in the role of suicide troops. 2-3 units of 3-4 Manz in trukks flung into enemy lines with reckless abandon could have its merits. They will die pretty much every time and against certain troops they won't even make a dent (rending, or ablative power weapons/lightning claws) but if thrown at a unit with only one PW/fist and 2 of the Manz live to strike back it could very well mean a dead unit. Also, against armies where the raw strength of the PK is excessive (Tau, IG) it's another trukk for them to have to shoot down. Perhapses I'm making allowances because I really do like their models, but I think the Manz are at least worth experimenting with.
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
3 teams of mega-nobz could work, although if you're going to invest that many points into them, you might want to consider using Mad Doc Grotznik as well. That way you can buy them all cybork bodies, and not even attach the Doc to them, if you don't want to. 4 meganobz in trukks x3 runs around 600 points, and Mad Doc + cybork would shoot that up to 820, if you wanted to use him.
A more sensible choice might be using only two units of 5 meganobz each, and attaching the Mad Doc to one, and a Warboss with mega armor, cybork and a bosspole to the other. That'd run around 850 or so, but I think it'd prove more effective.
Of course, the 600 point option is pretty cheap by comparison. You'd just have to be sure to steer them clear of power weapons and monstrous creatures.
It's a hell of a front line though.
I was considering the Mad Doc too - would have to review his stats/abilities, but using him to give the Manz cybork bodies and then ploping him into a 30 man footslogger squad sounds down right evil - no clue if it will work, but I deff. want to see it tried.
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
Since when where people not using warbosses and snikrot? I see biker bosses and snikrot all the time.
Joe Peshi (lone wolf) kill tally:Lash Sorcerer, Ghazkull, Yriel, Termi Libby, Vulkan.