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So I played a 2000 pt Chaos Space Marines army today that had three squads of terminators, two lashing daemon princes with a greater daemon in reserve and two predators with reaper auto-cannons and two lascannons. There was also two minimum size chaos marines squads to fill his troops choice.
Long story short, I got slaughtered. How am I supposed to approach this?
I ran a footslogging list that had a little bit of everything from kommandos to stormboyz plus a nob squad (mostly just to try out different things). Essentially he flew forward with his daemon princes lashing my nobz and shoota boyz back out of range. Whatever wasn't in CC with his daemon princes was getting torn apart by his guns. I tied up one unit for a couple turns but the others just kept on firing away.
After one prince killed the stormboyz it joined in on killing the sluggas I had fighting the other then they both turned on the lootas all while kiting and occasionally getting the odd pin of my shootas and nobz. I found my regular boyz couldn't do much between needing 6's to wound and then him getting a 2+ armour save. What few wounds my nob in each unit could slip through seemed to get saved by his invulnerable save.
By the time my nob squad could get in on the action I had finally taken out one daemon prince and just barely got there in time to save the shootas from the other. The rest of my army was taken out by the terminators and predators.
So now as for what I should actually be running to fight this army. I figured running a unit of tankbustas (maybe two) around in a battlewagon would be a place to start and should effectively deal with the daemon princes. But what else to accompany them? I usually like to take a full nob squad and plow forward in a trukk if possible but having the lootas for cover fire is really nice. Usually when dealing with really good armour saves my first thought is to find stuff that ignores armour hence the nobz. I would go with meganobz but while they can bypass the terminator's armour they can also get torn about by the same thing. Also, his terminators had invulnerable saves which my meganobz would not.
There's someone who posts on these forums (I can't remember the name) whose signature speaks on the daemon prince's lash ability... I find myself agreeing wholehartedly.
As an afterthought, whenever I design armies I usually like to create them at least with the possibility of running them in tournaments so I try to make units that can handle all things be it a swarm army, a CC army, or range shooty army. I know that's a lot to try and plan for but just something I like to do.
Just some ideas I'm juggling around so tell me what you think and what you would do to handle this.
"Orks have to be followers of Nurgle! They're green, smell bad, and just want to spread the fun!"
You need more anti-tank units to counter that. Obviously.
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Lash can't be used on vehicles or units in a transport. A Trukka mob charging him should make that DP go splat. 5 PK attacks backed up with 44 normal attacks will seriously hurt him. If you're doubtful, take 2, it's not like they're expensive.
Assault weapons counteract Lash pretty well, so you can still move and shoot.
To deal with Oblits and Predators, PKs are your friends. Trukk mobs, Kommandoz (in 5th), Stormboyz, or anything riding a Battlewagon can catch them and destroy them.
If all else fails, just throw tons of Sluggas at them. They can't possibly Lash or kill them all, and PK Nobs do all the damage. 2 Warp 'Eads will get Waagh! off with some reliability and you'll stomp dem flat.
Lash isn't all that bad, but when combined in such a manner it gets pretty annoying. It's just as easy to refuse to play such a dirty list, there's no point if you won't have any fun.
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The list you fought is a very popular 'competitive' list that's being used right now. They vary slightly, but they're Chaos lists that use 2 Demon Princes with Lash, Terminators, Obliterators, Predators and two minimum squads of regular Chaos Marines to fill the compulsory slots (sometimes in rhinos).
It's a really tough list to beat, but the best way is by using transports, as long as you keep the transports behind cover until you're ready to attack. Of course, even they have trouble against all the anti-armor, but as I said, it's a tough list to fight in general. 5th edition helps with the 'running' rule, but the ability to move units 2d6 inches is significant. The new rules for claiming objectives also hurts this list, as only the regular marines will be able to claim them.
Another good strategy to use is superior numbers. Lists like this usually have a very low model count, so you could always try and overwhelm them with a very large number of units. Even if they're on foot, he can only lash 2 units at most each turn.
In any case, good luck!
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
the ways to kill lash:
1) threat abusal:
take units he'll either ignore & are actually a threat, or units he won't ingore that are actually pointless
in my case this is gretchin, you'd be surpsied how well 25 grots do vs a demon prince with 2 attacks (grabba sticks ftw)
also, he can only lash 2 units per turn, so if you have 2 30 boys squads, make it 3 20 boys squads
2) good time trukking:
take as many vehicles as you can fit, 6 trukks with big shoots & PK nob come in under 1000 points (if i rember, about 136pts per squad so... 800ish) kustom force fields can be used to support them (and they work inside the damn trukk, as said by faq)
you can also chuck in the odd battlewagon full of grots if you like >.> (sorry, preference : D)
looted wagons work too as they cheap
3) special characters:
i dislike most of them, but they good, get snickrot to assasinate one of them, then half his lash are gone, vulcha works for same effect, and if your lucky, you can turn 1 into a squig with zagstruck (think that's who it was)
4) shoot it till it falls over:
it has a 3+ save, & costs 155 points for that you can get.... 8 kannons, which mathicly should be able to take one down a turn ignoreing all your other units (but leaves no heavy support unfortuantly)
you can also get some TL rokit tracks for more shooty
5) unit spam:
your orks, it's 2000pts, take the full force chart, then he can only lash 2/15 units a turn ( i assume HQs are with a unit)
6) just hit it:
get somthing fast with a PK & a multiple of same unit, nob bikers/trukka boys and rip its head off
that's all i can think of atm, not got my ork dex on me, but most of them are from experiance relitvly (i've got a lash list & orks, so i see both sides : D)
oh, and zatnugg, it's the ranty farmergiles who complains about lash in every army section, who mentions it in his sig
Last edited by boo; July 7th, 2008 at 13:22.
And rightly so Boo Boo! 25 points and causes so much mayhem its obscene! Use whatever you have to take out the lashers asap, sod everything else, just kill off the stilton unless you want 200 points of Orks killed by a 25 point "infallable" power!
oh, that reminds me,
7) take 2 warpheads
this means each turn you have a good chance at waagghh, meaning you move 6+d6
he lashes you 2d6, meaning that while your still slowerd down, you will be going faster,
also, you can deepstrike into his lines, sowing confusion, of what to lash/shoot
also in addition to my shooty ideas, you could take a few units of komandos with rokits & just put them forward as usefull bait, they have rokkits so can hurt them, but are cheap so it doesn't matter if death
just remember, lash may be strong, but it is nowhere near as hard to defeat as many other things
(you try and take down 8 land raiders in 2000pts with str 8 weapons >.>)
Been slowed down isn't ususally the major issue with the lash, its getting pie plated because of the silly "i can bunch ur models up" rule in the FAQ.
8 LR's in 2000pts, god chaos players should be ashamed for trying that, oh well would give my Power Klaws something to do! Sod rockets I like getting in up close and personal!
Still, looking on the bright side, from what I've heard this sort of list would have real problems with some of the new missions - take out these 2 minimum-sized Troop squads and he might not be able to win.
Notwithstanding this, I'd be tempted not to bother playing against a player that chose such a list. After all, there ought to be some fun somewhere in all of it ... ... ...
~ Raven ~