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I just recently started an Ork army with the impending release of the 5th Edition. I have a thing for Horde armies, and this new one will A) allow me start afresh allow me to use both red and green (both colours I don't use often enough.) So I started out with 2 battleforces, some extra Boyz, a Warboss and some Burnas/Lootas. But a sudden problem has presented itself, just how good are Burnas compared to Lootas?
From what I've read Lootas have the potential to do a lot of damage, but I prefer the Burna models. The main problem I see with Burnas is that they cost a fair bit and are easily killed. My thinking was that with the new 5th Edition rules that I could screen them behind a mob or two, then when they neared split them off to wreak some damage. And wreak some damage they can! Even a few Burnas should wreck an infantry squad with their flamers, and against MEQs they should do a fair bit of damage as well.
But before I assemble them I wouldn't mind some experience others have had with both Lootas and especially Burnas. So thank you in advance, and I hope to get to know the Ork community better over the next while. So in conclusion WAAAAAAGH! *ahem*
First of all, you should definitely use some parts from some extra boyz to make both the burnas and lootas out of the sets. They're both very useful.
To answer your question, lootas are definitely better. This doesn't mean burnas aren't worth taking, as they are, but lootas are arguably the best unit in the ork army. You might have trouble using the lootas in units any less than 9 (you could add up to 3 meks w/big shootas to help beef up the numbers). Small units of lootas don't last long, as they're a prime target for your opponent. Keep them in cover, where they can see a lot of the board, and use them to take out your opponent's infantry and vehicles. They're the best anti-armor the orks have, although they can't take out armor 14 (they'll erase anything less though).
Burnas are FANTASTIC anti-infantry troops, and can wipe out 20-30 model units in a single round, given the right circumstances. As a bonus, if you don't shoot with them in the shooting phase, they count as having power weapons, so they can take out marines and monstrous creatures as well. Even a team as small as 5-6 burnas (or 4 burnas + 2 meks w/kmbs, big shootas and/or rokkits if you only have one set) can work very well.
Why do I rate lootas higher? Because burnas NEED a transport in order to work. It's not an option. Burnas on foot have no real chance of using their burnas before getting either shot to pieces or assaulted by their intended target. Burnas in a vehicle are fantastic though, especially in a battlewagon (although this can be expensive point wise), or a trukk (but they'd have to borrow it from a unit of boyz). Also, since they can't have a nob with a powerklaw and bosspole, they have a little trouble in close combat, even with power weapons. I often attach a warboss with a powerklaw, cybork and bosspole, to large units of burnas, to add a little more punch and staying power.
So there you go. Lootas work great in virtually any ork list, as long as there's 9-15 in the unit. Burnas work fine in units of any size (perhaps with 2 meks with kustom mega blastas, so they can also hunt tanks), but they need a vehicle in order to be effective, and a warboss to be perfect. In some lists and point levels, this just isn't feasible. On the other hand, as long as you have at least 150 points open to use, 10 lootas is always a good choice.
I agree with grax on the lootas all the way. I dont find burnas as valuable though. They really need a good transport such as a battle wagon. And the points can really add up.
Joe Peshi (lone wolf) kill tally:Lash Sorcerer, Ghazkull, Yriel, Termi Libby, Vulkan.
Yeah, I figured that may be the case. Being over twice the price as the basic basic and having the same survivability they're really quite vulnerable. Seeing as I don't plan on running a Battle Wagon in my list they'll have to be put on the back burner (heh heh, not funny I know.) Thanks for the advice, as I wanted to make certain I kind of knew what I was doing before I started gluing thing together (including my fingers.)
I personally am losing faith in Lootas. 1/3 of the time they don't fire enough bullets and their BS2 is still painful. Against hordes they are quite cool, but 3+ saves still cause annoyance.
Not only that but when you're trying to fit the rest of your massive force on the table its nigh on impossible to give them a spot all to themselves thats any good.
Additional the cover rules in 5th Ed hurt them, because your opponent is not going to stick his favourite unit out in front to get mullered so you gotta contend with 4+ cover saves as well.
Lootas are the best unit in the ork army. Don't lose faith!
Although they work very well against hordes, where Lootas really shine is as anti-armor. Yes, they can't hurt AR 14, but anything lower than that gets erased in short order.
A unit of boyz with 3 rokkits have a 1/3 chance of getting a hit against a vehicle, and then another 1/3 chance of hurting AR 13, making their odds 1/9. Even a rokkit buggy has a 2/3 chance of hitting, but only a 1/3 chance of hurting, making their odds 2/9. Even 3 rokkit buggies would only have a 2/3 chance of doing damage every turn, altogether.
10 lootas, on average, put out 20 shots, with 6-7 hits (on average), and have a 1/6 chance of damaging AR 13, making their odds 6/6-7/6. In other words, they're all but guaranteed to hurt armor 13 or lower every single turn, statistically.
No other unit in the ork army can match those numbers. Against regular troops they erase 6+ guys a turn if they have a 4+ save or lower. 20 shoota boyz w/2 big shootas (roughly similar number of points) inflict 6+ wounds that ignore 6+ save and 2+ wounds that ignore 5+ save. The shootas inflict more wounds, but at lower AP. Roughly, they're equal, but shoota boyz are better in close combat.
The real advantage of the lootas isn't anti-horde, but long range fire and great anti-armor shots, both of which the ork army desperately needs. They're virtually a must have.
If you're worried about horde, I'd add some burnas. That's where they really shine.
In the army I'm slowly designig/building, I take a unit of 6 Burnas inc. 3 meks. I plan on running the old dred bash list. With a 4+ from a KFF and the meks to fix what does get through, I can see alot of kans survivng. I addition, the burnas get a 4+ save from being behin the kans. Once they get close enough, they can either burn away "speedbump" squads or back up the Kans in combat.
Thats the plan, not sure how well that will work!!
Burnas never seem to survive without a transport, at least in my experience. Your plan might work. It really depends on if your opponent sees them as a threat or not. If they do (and they should) the 4+ save won't be enough to protect them from concentrated fire.
Another problem is if your opponents run up and assault your line of killa kans (let's say with genestealers, orks or assault marines), you won't be able to fire your burnas at them, because they'll be locked in combat. A vehicle not only protects the burnas, but also gets them close up to the enemy.
In order for your plan to work, your opponent will have to not fire too much upon them, and voluntarily move their troops within 14in of the burnas. If they stay more than 14 inches away, the burnas can move 6in closer, but won't be able to reach with the burnas, and on your opponent's turn he can just rapid fire upon the burnas, and assault if there's any left alive.
No, it just isn't looking like a good plan any way you cut it. Burnas have to be moved up close to the enemy, and if they're walking, your opponent will get at least 2-3 turns to destroy them with gunfire, which should be plenty of time. Either put them in a transport, or don't use them at all.
I thought I'd throw another question in here, instead of making another topic (I just hope someone will notice.) Here it is:
As I plan on running an Evil Sunz list, I'm going to include a few Trukks to get my Boyz into combat quicker. I'm definitely giving the Trukks a Red Paint Job (what self respecting Evil Sunz Warboss wouldn't?) and as cheap as it is I figure I might as well. But is there any point in purchasing any other type of upgrade, or is it best just to keep the Trukks as cheap as possible? I thought that Armour Plates looked somewhat tempting, especially in the 5th Edition where glancing hits can't destroy a vehicle. Or is it too much for what you get?
I'm not a big fan of red paint job. It never really seems to make a difference. I only use it on trukks full of nobz, were it's absolutely vital that they make it into close combat.
The best upgrade for trukks, even better than red paint, are rams. Rams give you 3 bonuses in 5th edition: they let you tank shock (good for pushing units out of the way), they let you ram other vehicles (an automatic hit up to strength 8, depending on how far you charged), and most importantly, they allow you to re-roll difficult terrain tests. Nothing's worse than having a trukk full of boyz stranded, because they had to cross terrain.
Rams are the only upgrades I give trukks. Nothing else really seems worth it.
Stikkbomb chukkas are practically worthless in 5th edition, at least for normal boyz (they still work well for nobz). Armor plates aren't useful because if your opponent can shoot your trukks, then your trukks are dead in any case. They don't have the resilience to warrant them. You need to keep trukks out of sight (either behind cover or other vehicles) until you're ready to strike. Wrecking balls may work, but I'm not sure if they're worth the points.
On a side note, be sure to at least use 3 trukks in every list. Anything less, and they're easy to pick off. 3 is the minimum and 4-6 is better.
Of course, with 5th edition you might not want to have too many of them. If the mission is annihilation, then killing the trukks themselves (not the passengers) count as killing a whole unit, so destroying a trukk full of boyz counts as destroying 2 units. Of course, trukks are great for the other missions, so I'd still use them. Just don't include too many.