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It is a well known fact that in gaming terms, powerklaws are necessary on pretty much every nob leading a squad and every warboss. Without them, the character is much, much less useful and not even really worth the points. Orks rely on them.
To me, this is frusterating. There are many units in the game where this applies, but with orks, it pertains to many if not most of our cc units, and it is more uncompromising than other situations where there is a clear "best" loadout.
Thus, as ork players we're required to slap PKs on every darn nob or warboss in our army, sometimes requiring lots of money and conversions. Furthermore, it greatly limits both variations in our army lists and variations in modeling. For instance, I'd love to field a nob leading my boyz with a massive, awesome looking axe (like the one in the new boxed set), but everyone knows that big choppa is worthless in that unit and that the PK is both better and necessary to make the unit function properly. For those trying to wysiwyg an army, this tends to suck...
Anyone else feeling the frustration? I was really hoping that in our latest codex they'd make more of a balance with weapon loadouts... For instance, if Big Choppa ignored armor saves but gave no strength bonus, it might be a viable option (though still inferior to the high strength of the PK). Thoughts?
With a PK is nearly every plastic set there's no trouble having enough of them (unless you want a Nob mob with all PKs, but that's just silly ).
'Uge Choppas are a viable choice for vehicle busting in 5th (always bash the rear) and are a cheap way to make your Nob more reliable in HtH. Your mob won't be able to do much to MCs or 2+ saves, but with so many attacks they can even take out marines and will still munch weaker troops. Plus, PKs don't get an extra attack any more, but 'Uge Choppas do.
PKs are still the best because they allow our mobs to deal with vehicles, monstrous creatures, characters, and heavy armor and make every mob with a PK a big threat. But they are by no means mandatory.
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Yeah although I hate to have all powerklaws just to deal with marines and terminators, because face it, we can't rely on our shooting with KMB's to take out termies, pk is all we have, I would like that maybe uge choppas reduce the maximum armour save to 4+, but instead of scrapping that rule surely they could of changed it? maybe a -1 modifier to armour saves, so any unit with a 4+ save already has a 5+ save and a unit with a 6+ save has his armour save ignored.
I do love the uge choppa axe, and am using one on the stormboy, figuring that the 2+ st is still enough to make all hits wound, but then I remembered it doesn't ignore armour saves like our power weapon marines.
Surely there is a way to balance this? I mean they started using BS to negate scatter in ord and blast weapons, why not using a creatures traits as a bonus or disadvantage in different settings.
I always figured that Choppas and their kin ought to have worked like that right from the start - a Terminator has his save brutally bashed down to a measly 4+, but the Scouts just across the board suffer effectively no penalty whatsoever? And Guardsmen couldn't care less?? I know logic has no place in 40K, but come on.
Now, admittedly, I'm not an Ork player... I play Marines, but the one thing I'm wondering here is do the Orks really need much for extra combat options? The PK is nasty all on its own, the 'Uge Choppa packs a wallop, and they're backed up by a literal mountain of dice from all but the smallest of squads! I've lost track of the times that I've lost squads to a single, massive, 100+ attack charge - Doesn't the ability to pump out such an ungodly number of attacks kinda balance out any perceived weakness in special close combat weaponry?
If you don't like it find a way a round it make a list that doesn’t need the PK. sure it might be hard but if you get it to work tell us all, it just might make orks that little bit more better if only someone would get it to work.
Any one could help, just make lists with out power klaws and tell us how you go what works and what didn't.
I'll try it. I see shooty list working best.
Well a power klaw is worth about the same as like 4 orks? so for each klaw in your army you can have quite a few more orks, add this all up over say 4 large ork mobs, thats an extra 16 orks, that alone can make a huge difference, I think its more of a failsafe against those damn monsterous creatures and things like the deciever ETC, its always good to have something that will totally own a creature that large regardless of how ridiculous its toughness is.
LoL if you don't want to rely on powerklaws you are infact playing the wrong army i am afraid. You hit the nail on the head, orks need powerklaws in each and everyone of their squads that can take them. Its our only effective way with dealing with av14 and other vehicles. More often than not it swings the balance of a combat in your favor, (assuming were not talking 5+-6+ enemies). Its the best way to deal with MC's and it insta-splats T4 IC's. If you want to model Uge Choppas, just hack off the axe where it connects to the hand, and glue it on the other side. So you can have your ork nob caring a powerklaw and he has the cool choppa too.
Joe Peshi (lone wolf) kill tally:Lash Sorcerer, Ghazkull, Yriel, Termi Libby, Vulkan.
hmm, I wouldn't rely on the choppa vs vehicles now for several reasons-
1. Glancing hits are toned down and can't destroy
2. you still won't be able to penetrate or even glance some vehicles
3. with our rokkits less effective due to the weakened glance, we need to make all cc attacks against vehicles count
Its true with the new boxes that you get PKs, which is nice, but for retrofitting old models which rarely included them it kinda sucks... I mean, the old warboss didn't even come with one.
Arguments aside, I still can't imagine an army that isn't heavily dependent on powerklaws, except maybe the great suggestion of lotsa dakka
Its not the end of the world, its just a bit frustrating that they seem to be the only viable option for our race to succeed
Last edited by Seanchadith; July 14th, 2008 at 09:19.
Um, Nob powerklaws on the charge (and you'll be charging any AV14 vehicle outside of apocalypse, when you think about it), are S9. That's plenty for popping vehicles via pens (albeit needing a 6, but ... waddayawant).
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
I agree that its a little mad been forced to take klaws, but they are worth their 25 points! Last game I assaulted a crusing speed Land Raider with a squad of Berzerkers in it. Hitting on 6's with 4 attacks, got 1 six, that six rolled another six, and then that six rolled another 6! lol! One dead land raider and 2 dead berzerkers! only with a Klaw can you do that and make your opponent hate you forever!
The fact that every squad now has the capability to kill anything scares the opponent royally. I've had my Chaos opponent reconsider various strategies because of the fear factor of having something expensive owned by a Nob Leader. Also you can't rely solely on mass attacks for getting past armour because we still take a lot of casulties in combat due to our low INIT and 6+ saves. As a result winning combats is difficult to do without the opponent rolling badly on saves, which mine generally dont! 4 attacks from a Nob Leader with a Klaw usually = 2-3 hits on a marine and generally providing u don't roll a 1, thats 2-3 dead marines. Where as with a choppa, 2-3 hits might equate to no kills. Both ways its still a 2 to wound and the INIT 1 rule with klaws is irrelevant coz our INIT sucks in general anyway!