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So in my small group I have been trying out feel no pain vs. we'll be back. I now prefer feel no pain. That is right I think it is better than we'll be back.
Well simply for close combat. Combat is crazy now and we'll be back is awful for close combat (especially if you roll leadership tests like me).
Necron players all know how bad our close combat ability is with warriors, and feel no pain seems to help that.
Waiting for a new round to get back up isn't so great anymore. Those fallen warriors count as dead for combat resolution and rarely get the chance to get back up due to being swept by the attacker.
Getting a feel no pain roll at the time of the unsaved wound, instead of next turn is much better. It has kept me in combat more times than not, while tetsing it.
Now I just turned the we'll be back rules to feel no pain, face it they are almost identical...I did say almost don't badger me with somantics here.
Then turn the res orb into "allows a feel no pain roll" instead of we'll be back roll.
There now play test it.
I have with my group the last five games. It is weird how well feel no pain works better than we'll be back for close combat.
For shooting it doesn't hurt either.
Sure the bump in AP weapons bypassing feel no pain is a pain, but it is for the other armies that have this rule as well. It should effect the necrons as well to keep thing fair. At least I think a starcannon or plasma gun should melt a necron warrior just as well as a memeber of the Death Guard it is just balance and fairness. Plus there is so much cover for saves now you don't get wounded with half of those shots anyway.
If you have a small group to play with give this a go. See if you think it sucks or is good.
If you are hyper-competitive then ignore this and call me crazy for trying it. I'm just throwing my experiences out there.
Fluff aside, I really hope they change the we'll be back to feel no pain. It is faster and easier for everyone to understand. That and it keeps us in close combat a lot longer than we'll be back. Especially, like I said earlier, if you roll horribly like I do.
I salute you for for trying to be positive, proactive and bringing positive thoughts based on reason to the forums.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
It's good that you're testing this, I wonder if it's a foregone conclusion, and what other changes will come to the 'Crons.
Ok, fluff aside, as you mentioned above, I do agree that FNP is more efficient. I also admire, like Karmoon, people being optomistic about Necrons. There has been too much pessimism in this subforum recently. My only concern about FNP from a non-fluff perspective (I still feel that, fluff-wise, WBB is better), is that it could lead to an increase in an overall point increase for the already point-heavy Necrons. For me, I would rather have a larger army with the less efficient WBB, then a smaller army with FNP. Despite this concern, it is good to see some testing being done on the possible change, to see how the game changes for us. It is also good to hear the other side of the debate, since the last topic on WBB vs FNP was rather one sided.
Increasing the diversity of the 40k universe through the destruction of Space Marines, one army at a time...
I've heard this argument a lot from the necron players I know, and the primary argument against switching to FNP seems to be fluff related. I find it slightly amusing that you end your post talking about how power gamers should ignore this, when your proposed change is motivated solely by the desire to win.
I will grant you that FNP is easier to understand, especially for someone who is not a Necron player (myself). There are already a few rules that are confusing to non-Necron players, and changing WBB would certainly make things clearer.
I suppose that since I am not a Necron player and don't particularly care for the general build or fluff, I can't pass legitimate judgement. However it seems (to me at least) like the Necrons lack character anyway, and taking WBB makes them even less interesting. I'm not a power gamer type. Fluff and fun are definite factors in how I play, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm willing to deal with a little confusion and inefficiency (even on the opposite end of confusing 'Cron rules) for the sake of good times.
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars
[quote=SimulatedSnowman;1207341]I've heard this argument a lot from the necron players I know, and the primary argument against switching to FNP seems to be fluff related. I find it slightly amusing that you end your post talking about how power gamers should ignore this, when your proposed change is motivated solely by the desire to win.[QUOTE]
I never said this was for the sole purpose of winning. I was just stating my experiences and trying to think outside the GW box. Plus all the people who like we'll be back haven't tried feel no pain ( i was one of them ) and I wanted to share what I learned by switching it, maybe show people the other side of the argument and try to bring a positive light to a mostly negative forum lately.
That and I said hyper-competitive, not power gamers. I think there is a difference between the two breeds.
I was saying how it changes or can change necron warriors in close combat. I doesn't make this army unbeatable just a bit better than it is with we'll be back. I also did this for fun not to try and win games or power game my army.
Sorry you misunderstood my original post
It seems to me that through most of your post your primary argument is to change WBB to FNP because it would make Necrons better in close combat. I personally find that Necrons lists have success even though their CC skills aren't quite as good as some other armies. If your reasoning behind the switch isn't to make your army better, then what exactly is your reasoning?I never said this was for the sole purpose of winning.Ironic, considering that GW seems to be working towards phasing out special rules and using universal ones instead. Examples include the loss of the space marine trait system and the rumored loss of IG doctrines. It would seem to me that changing WBB to FNP is thinking inside the GW box.I was just stating my experiences and trying to think outside the GW box.I somewhat agree. I enjoy winning as much as the next guy, and could certainly be classed as competitive. However I do believe that most power gamers are mostly motivated to build unbeatable lists because they are hyper-competitive. I've never seen or played against a power gamer that was okay with losing. Perhaps my scope is limited.That and I said hyper-competitive, not power gamers. I think there is a difference between the two breeds.I guess my problem with that is that everyone wants their army to be a little bit better. I would love for there to be better CC troops in the IG. But when you start changing the character of the army you use, it takes away from the variation and the fun of the game. I believe that WBB is a defining characteristic of the Necrons, just like Power Armor is for SMs, tanks are for IG, and aspect warriors are for Eldar. If you wanted to use an army that is better in close combat, then there are plenty of other options. Heck you have that option within the Necron codex. There are plenty of strengths that Necrons have to make up for their general lack of CC prowess.I was saying how it changes or can change necron warriors in close combat. I doesn't make this army unbeatable just a bit better than it is with we'll be back. I also did this for fun not to try and win games or power game my army.
Plus the bottom line is, if you're wanting to use FNP for fun between games with your friends, have at it. Honestly, I'd play you with that rule in place and it wouldn't bother me at all from a gaming standpoint. I guess I just can't get past the idea that it seems to be taking an idea that makes your army unique and turns it into more of the same.
Last edited by SimulatedSnowman; July 18th, 2008 at 19:53.
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars
To be honest, worrying about the future codices seems somewhat pointless to me. All of the latest codices have been very good, and whilst GW may have hung us out to dry a bit with 5ed, but come the new release I trust that everything shall be put right.
I will however miss the moments when my lord seems like an unstoppable behemoth when every turn I roll a 4+ and he returns anew (anew/old? he is millions of years old).