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Missions have changed significantly, in very interesting ways.
The biggest change (which you've undoubtedly already heard) is the lack of calculating victory points in the traditional method.
In 1 of the 3 scenarios, you get a 'kill point' for every unit you completely destroy, to a man. Vehicles each count as 1 point, even if they're a dedicated transport. Multiple units taken as 1 force organization choice (Imperial Guard platoons, etc.) each count as 1 kill point per sub-unit, regardless of how many slots they took up.
In the second scenario, you have to claim d3+2 objectives you and your opponent placed before choosing table sides. Only units that are both troops and infantry can claim these objectives.
The third scenario is similar to the second, only there are only two objectives, and they're each in the opposing deployment zones.
Setup is also greatly changed, as you don't take turns deploying units. They've decided to rip off Hordes/Warchine directly (which is probably a good thing) and make the simple rule: you both roll to see who wants first turn, and whoever goes first has to deploy EVERYTHING he has first. This all but eliminates any first turn assaults (unless infiltrators are involved, as they still deploy after all normal deployment), and limits the advantage of going first. Also, you always know whether you're going first or second BEFORE you deploy.
There are a few different setups: corner to corner, long side to long side, and an interesting mission where everything besides troops and a single HQ come off from the board edge (as if from reserves) the first turn of play.
Reserves are as normal, any unit with special movement rules that determine what direction they can move in (like Mad Doc Grotznik's) don't affect them for the entire first turn they enter play, including running and assault. Also, you can freely combine units, transports (although dedicated transports have to either be with the unit they're attached to or empty) and independent characters into a single unit, and roll once to see if they come in from reserves. Altogether, this means you could place Mad Doc with a unit of meganobz in a trukk, move in from your table edge, and ignore his movement rules for the first full turn. That has definite possibilities.
On a final note, now the game length is always random. After turn 5, the game ends on a roll of 1 or 2. After turn 6, the game ends on a roll of 1-4. After the 7th turn, the game automatically ends.
So what do people think? Are any of these rules going to change the way you set up your army? What do you think of these changes?
It doesnt really change the way I design my army, not just due to models but also coz adapting to the scenarios isn't too difficult.
However I'm glad of the new 1st turn rule with deployment. In 4th Ed, 1st turn practically won you the game, it was such an advantage, but now theres a good and bad side to 1st or 2nd turn and it evens out nicely.
I'd predict the use of high-number, hard to kill troops choices like sluggas to take objectives and limit the number of points the other team can gain from wiping out small units. Which is what I already use...
There's one thing I'm curious about that has me worried. If now you only get one kill point for each unit you destroy won't that sort of be stacked against the speed freaks players and anyone who puts things like buggies or kans in a separate unit?
If you have upwards of 13+ units (easily done with the above scenario) and your CSM opponent only drops 6-7 doesn't it seem like it'd be easier for them to win? All they have to do is take a few trukks, some warbuggies, and a couple slugga squads and already they'd have more kill points than we could possibly even get. I know if you completely destroy someone's army you win regardless but what happens when you get unlucky and roll a 1 after turn 5 and the games over but there's still one last angry termie squad gloating at you?
Am I just missing some details or are we in trouble? o.o
"Orks have to be followers of Nurgle! They're green, smell bad, and just want to spread the fun!"
I just played a 5th edition tournament, and honestly, I didn't have too much trouble with kill points. Of course, I wasn't playing a trukk based list. With the kill point missions in the mix, it might not be a good idea to load up a list with 6 trukks anymore.
On the other hand, I had a lot of trouble getting footsloggers all the way to objectives on foot, which cost me dearly in one of the games. Getting towards the enemy's deployment zone (for that mission) was more or less impossible.
I think the best 5th edition ork lists are going to have a mixture of the two. You can use predominantly one over the other type of troop, but going purely speed or purely numbers no longer seems like a viable strategy to me.
Also, despite what some people say, footsloggers are just as much hurt by the new rules as they're helped. Yes, they can give/recieve cover to/from other units and they can run, but it's really difficult to claim objectives with them (although it's easy to hold them) and ordnance DEVOURS them alive.
Guys, don't be too worried about killpoints. This is the way I see it:
For orks, speed freaks/mechanized orks especially, the way to go has always been as many smaller units/force organization selections as possible so that you can overload your opponent with targets, and focus 2 or more units on taking down more hard to kill units.
In a scenario where there is killpoints, instead of trying to drop down to a much lower amount of killpoints, keep them up, and keep up your large diversity of units and ability to overload the opponent. If you have 10+ units in 1500 (and maybe 15-16 kill points) while your beakie opponent may have 6-8 (or maybe even less as they too may be trying to drop down to as few killpoints as possible), although you have the killpints DISadvantage, you have the TACTICAL advantage of having more units. Use your old swarming tactics and just ANNIHILATE them. Don't worry about the killpoints. If you play mech ork, any good list is going to have a boat-ton of killpoints. Just go for the bloody goal and wipe them off the table. That is usually how my games end - either me completely fried, or the opponent is one giant blood-smear across their deployment zone.
"...a swarm of mechanised locusts sweeping over the land, stripping it bare of resources, bringing death and destruction to anything that stands in its path. Emperor preserve us against the predations of these so-called Orkish cults of speed!" - Cardinal Nomura at the Conclave of Hessen
It will all really depend on the board and mission. Depending on the situation, wiping your opponent out to a man can actually be quite difficult. In fact, I don't believe I've ever wiped a person out completely with orks, at least not in competitive play.
Assuming you can just 'kill everything' can be a dangerous assumption, especially now that there's a 33% chance that the game will only last 5 turns. As long as he can hide a single unit, keeping it alive, he'll win if he's ahead on kill points. Also, in tournaments, games usually never reach turn 6 in any case. There isn't enough time in each round.
I'm not saying trukks are bad, especially with the new focus on holding objectives, but using almost nothing but trukks now seems like a dangerous strategy, given how easy it is to destroy them, earning your opponent a kill point for each one.
For speed freaks, I'm probably only going to be taking 4 trukks in most cases, but I'll throw in some more bikes and battlewagons, to keep the army fast. Of course, you can also avoid having too many kill points by eliminating the extra small sized troops like rokkit buggies, extra HQ choices, big gunz and deff dreads. If you just kept your list to 6 trukks, an HQ, and 1-2 anti-armor units (tankbustas in a battlewagon, warbuggies, killa kans, Lootas, or bikes) it wouldn't be that crippling.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; July 21st, 2008 at 16:15. Reason: forgot one thing
Days of the 3 Buggies in 3 squads are pretty much done now tho - that's just like giving points away.
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
I agree. It's a shame, but having units of only a single model each is no longer a good idea, which is a shame, given that it's always been one of my core strategies with orks. Oh well, 3 buggies are by no means bad together, and a single rokkit buggy isn't a bad choice as long as there's only one unit like that in the list.
I haven't had any problems yet.
The only change I did have to make was dropping the idea of having two Dreads as Troops.. they can't capture objectives at all now, so meh.
Takka n' Wakka's Dakka Attacka! 33W / 6L / 1D