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With 5th edition and the new true los rules, i realized hiding my 7 skimmers is impossible (it was already pretty hard before) so i've decided to switch to a webway portal army. The webway portal will come in a 16 man footslogging warrior squad, because i didn't trust myself to hide a haemonculi at all times with true los rules and i needed more troops to take objectives.But i am not sure wether to take 1 or 2 of those squads with a webway portal each in 1500 points, with only one i am scared the squad could get destroyed before it got far enough, but 2 squads is pretty expensive and would force me to sacrifice some hitting power. So do i take 1 or 2 webway portals?
-A tau, dark eldar and slaanesh csm player
-And always on LO chat..
I don't have a whole lot of experience in regards to webway portals, In the past having only used them to deliver Talos in a mostly Raider Rushing army, however, it's worth noting that as True LOS makes your raiders alot easier to target, it also makes your WWP carriers alot easier to target. I think you would have to be pretty crazy to use only one WWP now between it being easier to target the carriers and the fact that the sybarite or even haemonculus could take a wound if the enemy manages to put enough volume of shots into them
Personally I take a unit of 16 with a portal and a unit of 5 scourges, 4 with DL and 1 with portal. This allows the scourges to fly around and split the opponent's force's firepower and manpower, especially when you can run with them now too, and means that the sybarite in the other unit gets away largely unscathed. Plus the smaller unit of 5 is slightly more flexible with regards to TLOS, plus when you sit down to place the portal you can pour 4 DL shots into anything that takes your fancy.
Yep, its tricky at 1500 as 2 portals is a lot of points - for me thats the breaking point in 4th ed but now in 5th I would do it.
I say give the 16 man squad one and the other to a raider squad - put another 14 man squad on the table for support and put the rest into the portal. You will have to be very careful and you might have to drop at least 1 of them on turn 1 depending on setup, enemy and mission.
Its tough at 1500 points, I am surprised you have 7 skimmers.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
Most people I've seen with WWP armies tend to use two 14-man Warrior squads. Not too expensive, and a solid number of models overall.
I'm going to be toying with small (5-6 man) Raider squads (no more than two) speeding up and deploying the WWP's second turn, maybe with support from a footslogging squad as well. When I finally get around to trying it out I'll let everyone know how it works for me. With the removal of "entangling" and the 4+ cover save flatout fast skimmers now get, I think it'll be a viable delivery method.
I tought of one in a sniper squad. Now nowbody would expect that ha;-) and the 12" i get from that is mostly enough.
And the other one in a Raider. that I will try it out as soon as I can, will come from deep strike, so I can look for a good deployment zone after everythnig is set. And now in 5te Edition, we can disembark the turn wie deep strike, and run! so that should be enough to find a nice hiding spot.
and I guess i'll play some more sniper squads, as with true line of sight, there are more chances you see something you can kill;-)
On the first turn the scourges can move up to 18". This can see them redeploy rather rapidly away from where they started, and help them hit a nice handy bit of cover. Them being a small squad tends to reduce the amount of firepower that gets poured into them, especially when playing a new opponent who doesn't realise that scourges can take WWPs, most assume that either only characters can take them or only characters and warrior squads as these are the most common setups.
As for the DL question, they really can come in useful when laying down some heavy fire in T2, would you like 3 of your 5 man elite unit with 2+ saves to pop just like that? Or how about that nice big juicy tank?
Finally the bit I like best: they aren't troops, meaning that in objective missions that because they aren't troops, they aren't a priority. As VPs are no longer used, the worst that this unit can do is give away 1 KP. Again, the 12" plus run move can come in useful for last turn objective denial, or even squad removal with the DLs. Tactically I find them a lot more useful now than ever before.I still see raider delivery system as a rather big risk. It screams out to be shot down early, especially with the size of the raider model and the importance of troops. Remember that in the KP mission, if you can take down a raider and some of the squad inside it thats a KP and a half pretty much instead of just the 1 KP from a footsloggting squad/scourges.Most people I've seen with WWP armies tend to use two 14-man Warrior squads. Not too expensive, and a solid number of models overall.
I'm going to be toying with small (5-6 man) Raider squads who can be wiped out AS EASILY as a scourge squad, and cost a similar amount of points if it weren't for the extra DLs the scourges can have? (no more than two) speeding up and deploying the WWP's second turn, maybe with support from a footslogging squad as well. When I finally get around to trying it out I'll let everyone know how it works for me. With the removal of "entangling" and the 4+ cover save flatout fast skimmers now get, I think it'll be a viable delivery method.
EDIT: Sorry if I seem a little scathing here, I really enjoy using my scourges as they are so underused by most players. I just feel that they have found a rather handy little niche here by filling up 2 very useful roles.
Last edited by ArtificiallyEnhanced; July 20th, 2008 at 20:46.
5 Scourges w/ 4 Dark Lances, 1 Sybarite w/ WWP comes out to 236 points.
5 Warriors w/ 1 Blaster, 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Sybarite w/ WWP, 1 Raider comes out to 166 points.
Those are the squads at question; your's against mine, and for mine I'd probably throw in at least 1-3 more Warriors, still coming up significantly cheaper than your squad. If there is even a single additional Warrior, the squad has more survivability than the Scourges, and it is a lot cheaper getting ablative wounds in there than it is for the Scourges. If the Raider moves at flatout, they get an automatic 4+ cover save; not the unit inside, but the Raider itself, which means the enemy still has to take the Raider down before they can even begin on the unit inside. The removal of the entanglement rule only benefits this strategy.
Scourges are simply just too expensive of a unit to try this with, or even to really take to begin with. If they were cheaper or had more survivability, then maybe they'd be a viable unit, but at this point in time there are much better alternatives. If your opponents don't target the Scourges, well, that's the problem with your opponents; the people I play (and if I were to play against someone taking Scourges) would eat them alive in half a turn of shooting max. You can't rely solely on cover on the board, nor how good your Run move will be, and there are other variables that you have to take into account, such as deployment, how much firepower the enemy has, and how many turns you plan on wasting the Dark Lances in order to move/run to a good position.
Too expensive and too weak for any army list that I would run, personally.
We still can't deploy the turn we land. Codex overrides the rulebook until an FAQ overrides the codex.
That really is the problem with scourges. Their points. If they were a cheaper base price then ablative wounds for the big guns would be more viable and/or if their weapons weren't so excessivly costed then they might be viable. for my personal tastes both systems have their flaws. Both are too fragile. Scourges cost way more than i can bear thinking about (two sniper squads-ish). In one third of missions the raider method gives away another KP.
Cover saves are good. Agreed. But it only takes 22.5 MEQ bolter rounds to wipe out a 5 man squad in cover. Alternatively it takes very few shots to wipe out a Raider (probably about 4 lascannon shots or 5 heavy bolters firing at it to pop it (pinning you 50% of the time and then 22.5 MEQ shots to wipe you out (if you land in cover).
This is not mentioning if you fail a Ld. test, which is generally my biggest fear.
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WWP and other Dark Eldar how to