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  1. #1
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    Tyranid 5th Edition Wishlist

    Why not? Could help everyone get an idea of what they'd like.

    Weapons:

    Bio-plasma: I've love it if Bio-plasma went back to being a flamer. Obviously some units would need some changing (Gargoyles), but still. I wants it.

    Deathspitter: Two shots.

    Devourer: AP5 or AP6

    VC: Give us penetration or give us death!

    Bonesword & Lashwhips: Give an extra attack. Maybe even give it to warriors.

    Crushing Claws: No more randomness. Just give 3-4 extra attacks and be done with it.

    Allow the scythe/mace tail to always work.

    Fix or remove spore cysts.

    I'd love to get rid of the barbed strangler's strength penalty, but that could be the meanness in me speaking.

    HQs

    Broodlord: I'd love it if they just gave the broodlord fleet of claw already! Or at least give us the option to choose between Infiltrate or FoC. Obviously, in light of the new rules for rending, the Broodlord (and genestealers) will have to have their points-cost re-evaluated.

    Hive Tyrant: Nothing wrong with this guy, though I'd prefer if they just broke down and gave Warp Field a 5+ invul. I'm tired of sucking powerfists.

    Troops:

    Nothing wrong with our troops. I love to have my gaunts go squishy. Still, they're getting a bit long in the tooth with the increased effectiveness of pie plates and the general troop-focused aspects of gameplay. Really, we've never had much choices in our troops. Usually our greatest debate is whether to use termagaunts or spinegaunts, with the occasional genestealers put in and maybe rippers.

    Unless we get a rule like synapse creatures count as scoring, I'd like a unit whose only function isn't to suck and die (apart from genestealers, but they're also getting a bit long in the tooth--everyone's intimately aware of their strengths and weaknesses and, sadly, it's fairly easy to take advantage of the latter).

    Even having a full-sized warrior squadron count as troops would be nifty.

    Elites:

    Warriors used to be too expensive for what they (wouldn't) do, but now they're sorta acceptable (running warriors with leaping, or shooty warriors with deathspitters). Still, they either need an extra toughness point or to be stock 4+ save (with the option to upgrade to 3+). Maybe make them plain BS3.

    Lictors: price go down. Perhaps increase the size of the brood or allow us to take more than one slot.

    Fast Attack:

    Gargoyles: Plastic, plastic, plastic, plastic. And no flying bases, please.

    Raveners: Nothing wrong with them. Lotsa stuff I'd like (like included deathspitter, or extra strength point), but I'd be happy with a price reduction (reflect loss of rending effectiveness). I expect them to make 3 the minimum brood size, though, to prevent taking three squads of 1.

    Trygon: I want a fast attack monstrous creature. I'd prefer something cheap like the Red Terror, but something fast, cheap, and powerful enough to support a flying tyrant would just make my day.

    Heavy Support:

    Biovores: We require the return of the large pie plat. Or just...something.

    Zoanthrope: Nothing wrong with Zoanthropes. Wouldn't mind seeing catalyst included in the cost, and with the aforementioned changes to warp field.

    Carnifex: I love 'em, but their current incarnation is unacceptable. They're supposed to be battering rams, but they take it so hard in close combat that there's nothing they can do that genestealers or even gaunts can't do better!

    At any rate, I'd like them given another point of initiative (so its worthwhile to put flesh hooks on them). Maybe just make them plain BS3. Regenerate also needs to be re-thought (perhaps included). Perhaps just give them a 6+ invul save. Not that great, but better than nothing against annoying lascannons, plasma shots, and (though diminished) rending ass-cannons. Another attack probably would be too much (if they did that, they'd almost have to give the Hive tyrant another attack too).

    Also, maybe Carnifex broods similar to zoanthrope mechanics (deploy at same time, operate independantly). Something to help free out our admittedly cramped FoC. As is now, after two sniperfexes and a zoanthrope or three, I have to start looking into HQs for anti-tank.

    So what would everyone else want?

    "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

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  3. #2
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Long time no see Atmy-chan.

    Hmm... your wish list is pretty reasonably actually.

    Normally I think fan based wishes are a bit OTT, but I think you've done well on this occasion.

    I think your suggestions would help with 'codex creep' nicely... and more importantly enable everyone to keep their lists the same.
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  4. #3
    Member OgreBane99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atma View Post
    So what would everyone else want?
    Fleet for melee-based 'fexes. Putting the points into an uber CC 'fex just isn't worth it yet. Since they can't assault after Run!, still not worth it as they get shot to hell on their way up.

  5. #4
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    I rather like the randomness in crushing claws. I would rather just have a price reduction on them and the ability to take two sets for 2d6 attacks (though my average roll on 2d6 seems to be around 4...).

    An extra point of toughness or extra point of sav on warriors would be great. Or perhaps an extra point of toughness base, and then you can upgrade them to a 3+ save but they gain S&P. I'd also really like to see the return of heavy warriors-> units with all BS or VC. I was disappointed when they were removed from the book, especially since there's no good fluff reason for there not to be heavy warriors. Plus then you could make a list with warriors as the HQ, Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support. Whats not to like?

    They should definately up the inv save from WF to 5+. A 6+ is rather worthless and they make us pay a lot of points for it.

    Biovores are crap right now. I wouldn't even take them in most games even if they were free because it would mean the loss of either a sniper fex or some zoans. They really need to get better.

    For the VC I'm thinking they should just give it a -1 to roll on the vehicle damage charge and thats it. Hell, I'm not even sure if it even needs that -1 these days....

    I really want to see fexes being decent in CC. In 2nd they had above average I, above average move, and I believe above average WS. Now they're below average in all those things (except for move sorta since its standardized). Fexes just don't work in CC these days....
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    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    THey should get something for a 12" charge...even if it's one use...

    something like, 'tremendous wind' biomorph.

    IT costs 20 points and enables the fex to charge into battle 12" after running.

    So, not only do you get to smash into the opponent and use nice biomorphs like tusked and stuff, but you also get the satisfaction of knowing you were farting while doing it.

    man... I should SO be allowed to write GW material.
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  7. #6
    Hive Fleet Níðhöggr sodcactus's Avatar
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    FNP on the stealers so I can actually get them into combat other than that I think Atma nailed quite a lot of them!
    {Sodcactus}
    Member of S.I.S.A
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  8. #7
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sodcactus View Post
    FNP on the stealers so I can actually get them into combat other than that I think Atma nailed quite a lot of them!
    Hrmm... mix FNP and Catalyst maybe...
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  9. #8
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    I think you guys are asking for way too much...It is like you want everything of ours to be better than everything of everyone elses. I don't think we need too many changes to be kept up to date.

    But here is my Wishlist

    HQ--Tyrant is great, no change
    --Broodlord is going to be great, but no longer needs rending as it is redundant (str 5 a six wounds everything) so point reduction.

    Elite--Warriors are solid, though I think immune to instant death is too strong. We should lose it in favor of a price reduction. Also shooty warriors (TL-Devs) should take a hit, and CC warriors should get a boost. Both just point cost changes, lower cost several CC biomorphs and raise cost of TL devs.
    --Lictors need a huge price drop, like 20-30 points.
    --Elite fexes maybe should go up to 120 or 125 points.

    Troops--Stealers are weaker price reduction 2 point (1 for rending, 1 for run).
    --Hormigaunt price reduction 2-3 points. For no retreat rule (hurts us bad) and run rule; this will make them more useable.
    --Normal gaunts seem pretty good, but I think devourer gaunts should get a price drop--possibly to 8 with toxin sacs...10 is a lot of points for models that drop like flies.

    Fast Attack--Gargoyles back down to 10 points
    --Ravs are pretty good, but now scyths and rending claws should cost the same so always cost 38 (maybe 36 because of run rule)

    Heavy--I would like to see a CC fex that doesn't get eaten up by 1 hidden powerfist, Leaping would be a nice upgrade (though should be spendy and out of elite price range). Shooty fex VC should count as AP- not auto glance.
    --Zoans are good as they are
    --Price drop for biovores, maybe make spore mines free or half what they are now. They seem like they could be good, but will never be cost effective are their current price.


    My big beef is that the run rule adds more to non fleet units than it does to fleet units, so all fleeting units should get a point reduction. With the rending drop all rending units should cost less...that just makes sense. Otherwise I don't think there is anything that a balanced nid list really struggles with. Right now I do see shooty nids are more cost effective, so they should do something to balance that so CC nids are at that level. And we are nids, let us get more numbers...it helps you sell more models.

  10. #9
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    146 (x7)

    Rendng still helps a broodlord. It allows it to pen rear AV11-13 and glance rear AV14.

    As for warriors, immune to ID doesn't do much for them. So they don't die to krak and lascannons... they still die in droves to bolters and HB. I think they should be T5. That would pretty much fix what they wanted to fix when they created the current synapse rules. Even if warriors were cheaper right now they still wouldn't be that useful because they die so easily to everything.

    I think that we can expect gaunts to go down in price (like the basic spiney), Right now for the price of a termagaunt you can get an ork, which is better in CC than a horm and far more resilient and with more attacks. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 1pt reduction for gaunts.

    I rather like the fact that the VC has AP4-> it makes it more useful against aspect warriors and the like. Giving it only a -1 modifier on the VDT would be nice, though.

    As I said before, Biovores are just bad now no matter the price. Think: which would you rather, pay 180 pts or so for 3 zoans, pay around 150 pts for a sniperfex (both our only two real anti-tank options), or get 3 free biovores which can barely hurt most infantry and are utterly useless against most tanks. I would pick the zoans and fexes each and every time over the free biovores because they'll do more good for me than the biovores likely will. Against MEQ I would much rather warp blast on my side than bio-acid mines. I'd also rather it against swarms than any of the mines. If they want biovores to be useful, then they should give them back the large blast template for their mines. Right now sniper fexes and zoans blow them right out of the water no matter what price they are.
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  11. #10
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    Thankies, Moonpie.

    Time for an update:

    Rules:

    Leaping: Allows units to consolodate into other units at the end of close combat a la 4th edition.

    Inhuman Strength: Should be purchasable by Tyranid Warriors (acts as power weapon attacks, see broodlord entry). Would go a long way to making them feared and respected (instead of laughed at and ridiculed).

    Venom Cannon: Make it S+1, AP3, and screw all the pain-in-the-ass special rules

    Shadows in the Warp: Make it psychic hood. That would make me happy beyond belief. Especially when combined with the psychic choir.

    HQ:

    Remove the 0-1 restriction on winged hive tyrants. There's no point in it anymore, honestly. However, the idea of a CC-tyrant with full guard running across the battlefield makes me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside.

    Troops:

    Across the board price reduction and/or modification to gaunts (and, perhaps, rippers). Two point reduction to the gaunt as well as 5+ save (it really doesn't matter, all things considered, but it will double their survivability against non-specially armed targets).

    Hormagaunts also need the two point reduction, 5+ armor save, and, perhaps, I and/or WS upgrade. I'd prefer I.

    Flesh hooks come standard on gaunts. EC comes standard on genies (with no option to upgrade).

    Rippers do not count towards minimum troop requirements (honestly, the 4 MCs in 500 point list is just mean--and I should know).

    Perhaps...just perhaps...return of mutations, on a minimum level. Not Hive Nodes (which sucked) but perhaps something like one gaunt could be armed with lashwhips toxic miasma. Or a bio-meltdown akin to the assassin.

    Phalanx: What about 'shocktroop' Warriors? Warriors under X amount of points count as troops. >.>

    My idea about carnifex broods would alleviate the biovore HS slot problem. After all, if 3 sniperfexes only take a single HS slot, you can only have one choice of zoanthropes...that would leave you with VC/BS warrior broods (which, I admit, would be sorta unfair--can you imagine 9 warriors lobbing BS-pie plates all over the map? We're not imperials, for god's sake!) and biovores who are able to lob large pie plates all over the map.

    I think the spore mines themselves are fine, but they're too small. Being able to independantly deploy and independently target with a brood of biovores would help.

    Karmoon:

    Thankies. This is a 'wish-list'. I have an incredibly bad feeling about some nerfs that are probably going to be looming over our heads in the future.

    Something like... "Catastrophic Charge: Once per battle, a carnifex may move a full 12 inch assault move, even into cover (but not through). The psychological and physical disorientation caused by such a massive beast shaking the very ground grants +X initiative to the carnifex. If armed with crushing claws, the carnifex may treat any enemy charged in cover as if they were out in the open."?

    sodcactus:

    Fluff-wise, all tyranids in synapse should have FNP, but, honestly, that'd mean that many, many other races would get it (imagine Necrons with FNP on top of their WBB-ness...ick). I think the fact that our troops are fairly vulnerable is one point of our uniqueness. We're not harlequins who can pretty much ignore incoming fire nor are we SMurfs with our own (arguably game-breaking) rules unique only to us in addition to our pillaging of other races' unique rules. We're tyranids, and we love it when our grubblies die! We just need them not to suck before then.

    nichodemus:

    Broodlords are simply very old and very powerful broodlords. They won't lose rending. Ever. A genestealer without rending would, literally, be like terminators without terminator armor. It goes all the way back to space hulk.

    EDIT: Also, give me Seeding Swarms back. Now. >.>
    Last edited by Atma; July 24th, 2008 at 04:17. Reason: Fell down and couldn't get up.
    "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

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