Lord joining Tomb Spyder? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Lord joining Tomb Spyder?

    Ok the 5th edition rulebook states clearly that: "independent characters cannot join a unit that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures)"...
    So if i create a scarab on my Tomb spyder its not longer a single model right? not to mention that since it CAN create a scrarab its not in the "consists ALWAYS of a single model" category anyway...So theoreticaly the lord can join that unit...? is this true?
    And if yes imagine a destroyer lord and a tombspyder with 2 scarabs...that gets us to 10 wounds with 6T and 3 monstrous attacks + 3 warscythe attacks + 6 S3 attacks = 12 attacks for a total of 195 points... hmmm


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    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    I think that's a bit of a stretch. Looking at the codex it says the Spyder is an independent character through the 'entire' game. Doesn't say anything about creating the scarab changing that. And the scarab just is forced to maintain coherency with the Spyder, not necessarily part of its squad (never says they're a squad in the codex).

    Nice try on the effort...anyone else?
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    Yeah i know im playing with words now but since we are a bit on the downside in the new edition i thought i make a try to "bend" the rules you know...Btw the codex doesnt say that the TS is an independent char it states that they operate as independent UNITS and it clearly states that TS and created scarab are a unit...and yes i know im playing with the words here again but why shouldnt i?

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    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    Guess I shouldn't have skipped a word. And you're right about independent unit not independant characters or being forced to follow that rule. I wouldn't be against 4 models having 11 wounds (2xscarabs=6, lord=3, Spyder=2) Woo hoo!

    After reading more, I would say this would be allowable since the lord can't join SINGLE model only units, the scarab rule breaks that requirement (even without the scarab being spawned yet). My buddy also said this might be dangerous because you're talking 2 wounds before the lord or spyder have to take a wound themselves (better than T4 wraiths I guess). It would be interesting to try this and maybe write up a tactica for it.

    I had one thought, move the spyder with 1 scarab up and the Dlord attached to the phalanx behind it, then the turn you plan to assault spawn a 2nd scarab, detach the lord (since he can move 12") and move him up to equal with the spyder and join them (can you attach/reattach that easily...not familiar with that rule set really). This way your lord has more spread wounds by the warrior squad before he gets in CC range. I'm gonna try fielding 2 spyders and run this tactic. Either way, hopefully at least one spyder would make it! Something fun about 3 MC, 3 warscythe, and 6 scarab attack! This could be a termy killer squad here! It might even be worth it to run flayed ones nearby to assault or spread wounds (just a seperate units). CC just got interesting for necrons!

    My buddy also questioned if under the monstrous creature rules they might be denied there...



    P.S. If i haven't made it clear, I love the idea!
    Last edited by Dark Trainer; July 25th, 2008 at 21:19.
    "There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

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    After reviewing the rules I would say that a lord is able to join a TS after it has created a scarab.

    refering to IC
    Pg. 48 they may not join vehical sqaudrons and units that always consist of a single model. (like most vehicles and MC)

    the TS is not always a single model, as soon as it creates a scarab it becomes a unit. Subject to all the rules units have to follow. damage allocation, majority toughness. ect...
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    Ok i just read the entire section about monstrous creatures and there is nothing there either that would disallow the combo...So until someone proves me wrong with a clear rule im going to field tomb Spyders and lords joined together...
    Glad that u liked the idea im rly excited about it too...
    Any feedback from the pros around here would be welcomed though because i might be missing something and i rly dont want to BREAK the rules... Now bend and twist them, thats another story...

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    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    So I had a realization too though, this combo is trading weapon skill on the lord down to WS 2 because of majority weapon skill of scarabs and spyder. By trading I mean you're gaining a bunch of nice T6 wounds at the cost of accuracy, but I suppose the spyders accuracy normally sux so it only affects the lord. Assuming they do hit, the scythe and MC hits will be so painful.

    I can't wait to field my spyders. So you guys agree that he can join 'after' he spawns the scarabs, but I would argue you could join him prior to that. The rule states models that are 'always' single spyders aren't always single even if the scarab hasn't spawned yet. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Dark Trainer; July 26th, 2008 at 06:34.
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    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Trainer View Post
    So I had a realization too though, this combo is trading weapon skill on the lord down to WS 2 because of majority weapon skill of scarabs and spyder. By trading I mean you're gaining a bunch of nice T6 wounds at the cost of accuracy, but I suppose the spyders accuracy normally sux so it only affects the lord. Assuming they do hit, the scythe and MC hits will be so painful.

    I can't wait to field my spyders. So you guys agree that he can join 'after' he spawns the scarabs, but I would argue you could join him prior to that. The rule states models that are 'always' single spyders aren't always single even if the scarab hasn't spawned yet. Thoughts?

    Majority WS??? no such thing... you'll roll sepratly or different colored dice for lord,spyder and scarab attachs.
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    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camarodragon View Post
    Majority WS??? no such thing... you'll roll sepratly or different colored dice for lord,spyder and scarab attacks.
    For defense I meant...defending is majority WS, I read about it today (page 37). You're right as an attacker each model rolls their own WS, but in defense the majority WS to determine what your enemy hits you on is based on WS 2 (minor deal really, since the next roll is based on T6 wounding. I was just was thinking about it). I should have clarified, sorry.
    Last edited by Dark Trainer; July 26th, 2008 at 07:11.
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    I haven't looked at the 5th ed rules yet but I'm pretty sure IC count as a separate squad when the unit engages in CC.
    And over there we have the labyrinth guards.
    One always lies, one always tells the truth, and one stabs people who ask tricky questions.
    http://xkcd.com/246

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