5th edition, kill points, war buggies... - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Guthbrand's Avatar
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    5th edition, kill points, war buggies...

    I'm sure some of you have noticed, but with 5th edition here, taking single model units of warbuggies might be a very very bad idea.

    If the mission being played takes kill points into account, you are essentialy offering your oponent a really easy to aquire kill point. That 3x point Warbuggie gives them just as much of a piece of victory as that 2xx point Land Raider does for you. O_o

    Grax, i'm sure you will end up reading this. Your warbuggie strategy is going to be seriously challenged by these new rules. You sill going to feild single model units of warbuggies?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member NovaJohn's Avatar
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    Well at the end of the day orks will almost always have more units than most other armies. I personally have 15-17 units on the table at 2000 points anyway where my opponents (usually marines, DH, crons or nidzilla) will have perhaps 4-9 units. Yes they only have to kill 1 more unit than they bring to the table and then avoid me for X turns but orks are usually pretty fast and we just have to wipe them out, which is what I usually am trying to do anyway!

    Last objective game I played the nid player occupied the objective building. I spent 3 turns trying to blow it up to flush them out!

    Yes the 3 FA slots of 1 buggie each is probably a thing of the past. Then again I have been fielding 2 squads of 3 buggies the last few games and am likely to be using the new deffcopta models when I get my green hands on them too.
    W/D/L Ork Tide 22/1/14

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  4. #3
    Senior Member crazyrpger's Avatar
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    You know, I only field one buggy, but it typically lives. Most other things in an ork army are a much bigger threat when you see them all moving towards you. None of my opponents have shot at my buggy until after it kills something.

    Only ork army that I see having the buggies get shot up is the speed freek type list. The fact that most stuff is in vehicles makes it easier to single out the buggies as a possible threat. If you run a horde, the buggies will get ignored in favor of shooting up da boyz... at least that's what I see. So, basically, no, I still see single buggies as viable.
    I'm trying to catalog every song with a reference to yetis or Sasquatch. Please help.

  5. #4
    Senior Member LordTrebor's Avatar
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    i guess we'll have to see how it plays out. but like its been said, usually they shoot it after it takes out their precious rhino/russ/predator/whatever. so they'll be a kill point down anyway. i might field them in units of 2 if things get too bad, though. deffcoptas don't give you TL and they cost 10 extra points.
    My award winning Orky tale


  6. #5
    Senior Member crazyrpger's Avatar
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    I just don't know if I see deffcoptas as a replacement for the buggy. They are more expensive, although they do provide the twin linkage. They get to jump over terrain and they are toughness based with 2 wounds... I guess it's just time to experiment! Is a few points more for a vehicle that can jump over cover and will drop to the same volley of fire a a buggy (remember only a 4+ save!) worth it? Probably in city fights. The cool thing about the coptas is that you can field 5 in one slot! 5 tl rokkits will kill something! Only problem is the expense...

    After the new Black Reach box, though, I bet we'll see more people use 'em. Wanna bet?
    I'm trying to catalog every song with a reference to yetis or Sasquatch. Please help.

  7. #6
    Senior Member LordTrebor's Avatar
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    <checks 'dex> oh, deffkoptas do get twin-linked. i stand corrected. but the rokkit koptas will still be more expensive. although the big shoota ones will be awesome anti-infantry. <shruggs> i guess we'll have to do some time honored orky eksperimentin'...
    My award winning Orky tale


  8. #7
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Indeed

    My individually fielded warbuggy strategy is dead with the new 5th edition rules. I actually had to go back and change my advice to a lot of new players. Having 3 warbuggies, one in each of the fast attack slots, is now downright crippling. It's adding 3 kill points to an army that probably already has a healthy share of kill points.

    To make matters worse, warbuggies (and all fast vehicles) have been cut down to 18in movement, and since glancing hits no longer destroy, rokkits aren't as effective as they used to be, since they can only glance armor 14.

    Where to go from here is a very interesting question. Deffkoptas or warbikes are better for speed, but aren't as cheap as the warbuggy. I'd pick deffkoptas over the warbikes though, since they can go over terrain, can be given rokkits, and even if you stick with their main gun it has twice the range of a biker.

    5 deffkoptas with either big shootas or rokkits should work fairly well, although they are susceptible to massed fire, and might run if they fail a morale save.

    3 rokkit buggies can still work, but they're not as effective as they used to be, especially since you can't really block line of sight with them. You can obscure line of sight, sure, but you can't really block. Of course, with the new rules I've found it's almost impossible to ever not be able to see at least a small bit of every unit on the board, unless you're playing cityfight, or an Apocalypse game.

    There really isn't a unit that combines 'fast', 'anti-armor' and 'expendable' in the ork army anymore, but with 5th edition, there may just not be any 'expendable' units at all, considering that everything takes up a kill point. For 'fast' and 'anti-armor', any of the fast attack choices work well, including storm boyz with powerklaws (not Zaggstruk).

    Instead of speed, you could also focus on range instead, and go with Lootas or an SAG. I'll have to play more 5th edition games before I'm sure what I'm going to do from now on.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  9. #8
    Senior Member crazyrpger's Avatar
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    At the risk of sounding dumb, I'm gonna say that I'm still running one single rokkit buggy. It works really well. Yeah, sure, it's an easy kill point, but who really shoots it when there are 150 boyz running towards 'em? Not to mention kans, a dread and a looted wagon. You just have to make it a lower priority for your opponent to shoot until after it pops that expensive tank your opponent doesn't think that da orks can crack...
    I'm trying to catalog every song with a reference to yetis or Sasquatch. Please help.

  10. #9
    Senior Member LordTrebor's Avatar
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    my thoughts exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyrpger View Post
    At the risk of sounding dumb, I'm gonna say that I'm still running one single rokkit buggy. It works really well. Yeah, sure, it's an easy kill point, but who really shoots it when there are 150 boyz running towards 'em?
    Exactly. We're orks. We almost always have numerical superiority. so we're gonna outnumber them when it comes to kill-points 9 times out of 10 anyway. If they're shooting at the rokkit buggy they're not shooting at our boyz- and as any good ork player knows- they're the real threat. so loosing a couple kill points isn't going to bother us as much as say MEQ. and the buggy is most likely going to take out something anyway. i'll still be fielding two in two seperate slots. they're bound to take out something and they're just too much fun, especially when your opponent under estimates it.
    My award winning Orky tale


  11. #10
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Hmm...

    Yes, a single rokkit buggy might not hurt, but there are a few problems.

    First, a single rokkit buggy isn't going to have a lot of impact in your list. Three rokkit buggies, all running across opposite ends of the field not only distracted opponents very well, but also took out a fair deal of armor. A single rokkit buggy can't really be counted on, and if you can't count on it to consistently do much for you, than it's really just a wasted kill point. It might work, but from experience, a single rokkit buggy tends not to last long. If it moves ahead of the rest of your army, then it's the first thing within range of enemy fire.

    Second (and this may not apply to everyone), in some lists you don't even have a single kill point to spare. This is more a problem for speed freak lists, which can easily have 14-15 kill points in a 1500 point list without counting the buggies, when a footslogging list might only have 8-9. Obviously, a horde list might have the extra kill points to spend on buggies, but trukk heavy lists won't, and as someone who plays speed freaks more than horde, this causes a problem.

    Still, I'm going to keep using them, but I'm trying to figure out exactly how viable 3 rokkit buggies are together in one unit, and if they're worth the 105 points.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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