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  1. #1
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    Need Help Vs Nidzilla @ 1500 points

    Hi all,

    I am playing in a local league and one of the players is fielding a Nidzilla army and we need help with how to take it down. I was thinking Eldar and thanks to those with good ideas, but I am thinking I should take Tau as it is my most familiar army.

    NOTE we are still playing in 4th Edition Rules.

    He fields
    6 Fexes - 3 heavy and 3 CC, Taking the 'non anti insta give skill'
    2 Hive Tyrants - one with wings,
    a squad of Genesteallers and
    another squad of CC nasties who have a 12 inch assault range!

    If you have played it with Tau and had any success against this nasty variant of an army, please let me know how you did it?

    Thanks for Any help.

    Gold94

    Sometimes I need to temper my enthusiasm, then I remember the impossible IS possible!
    Armies
    TAU 46W, 9D, 9L CHAOS 14W, 1D, 2L NIDS 4W, -D, -L

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  3. #2
    Striving for the right Ravenscraig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gold94 View Post
    If you have played it with Tau and had any success against this nasty variant of an army, please let me know how you did it?
    Hey Gold. It would be helpful if you would tell us what you have in the way of figures and models - that way we won't be advising you to take something you don't have!

    ~ Raven ~

    "The choice between good and evil, is made by all who live, with every single heartbeat ... ... ..."

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenGamer View Post
    Simple wording. On a forum, any forum, wording is all one has to go by to determine tone and intent.

  4. #3
    Senior Member spec.ops's Avatar
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    I won’t be able to give you any specific advice, because the data you have provided is insignificant.

    In General

    1.) Play 5th!

    2.) Make extensive use of your crisis (the work horse of Tau)

    3.) Cough* min-max *cough (I remember those days)

    4,) If your opponent takes the 2+ Sv take all RG's, and if he doesn’t take IH's w/ BASS. (An IH could actually pop a tank in that Ed.)

  5. #4
    Senior Member ZenGamer's Avatar
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    I think I can help here - I was a Tyranid player first (and still am), and I have played Nidzilla also.

    First off, I think Tau should have it easy vs. Nidzilla. That many MC's should not be too tough for so many str 5 shots. A far more difficult Tyranid army for Tau to deal with is the super fast Tyranid horde.

    I think you should take only 1 or 2 hammerheads, and use the submunition to take out the hormagaunts (the super fast ones) first, and the genestealers next. Once his troops are gone, the rest of his army except the flying hive tyrant is very slow and you should have an easy time staying away from him. Pass on the broadsides because that solid shot, while able to easily hurt MC's, can only do 1 wound per turn and you need more than that.

    Maintain fire discipline!!! This means destroy a unit first before moving on to another unit. This is important, because even a unit of 2 genestealers is dangerous to you, and a MC with 1 wound left is still just as offensively capable (and offensive) as one with full wounds. Fire weapons at other units only if they do not have LOS on the wounded ones. Always prioritize your targets. I think the priority should be roughly in this order:

    1) Hormagaunts
    2) Genestealers
    3) Flying Hive Tyrant
    4) Walking Hive Tyrant
    5) Elite Carnifexes
    6) Long Range Carnifexes

    You need to use the fish of fury tactic - 12 fire warriors rapid firing into a MC is tough for them to survive. Take out his Elite fexes and Hive Tyrants first because the long range heavy support fexes are too far away and probably in cover. Keep your fire warriors in their devilfish and preferrably out of LOS of the long range fexes until they are ready to fire - you don't want your vehicles taking hits from those Venom Cannons and Barbed Stranglers, and you don't want your fire warriors taking hits from the barbed stranglers.

    Use Kroot as counter-assault tarpit units... They should do great against Elite Carnifexes, causing wounds and holding them up for a few turns. Point for point he hounds can also rock hormagaunts, especially if you manage to get the charge. Kroot can really save your bacon.

    Also outfit your crisis suits with Plasma. For the second weapon, it's a tough call between the missile pod and the Fusion blaster... Fusion will obviously negate the MC's armor save, but the missile pod has longer range and can be shooting from first turn. I would use both.

    Maybe something like this.

    * 2x Shas'el Commanders w/ Plasma, fusion, TA, HWMT

    * 1x XV8 w/ Plasma, Missile Pod, TA, HWMT
    .....1x XV8 w/ TL-Missile Pod, TA
    * 1x XV8 w/ Plasma, Missile Pod, TA, HWMT
    .....1x XV8 w/ TL-Missile Pod, TA
    * 1x XV8 w/ Plasma, Missile Pod, TA, HWMT
    .....1x XV8 w/ TL-Missile Pod, TA

    * 12x Firewarriors
    .....Devilfish w/ Decoy Launchers
    * 12x Firewarriors
    .....Devilfish w/ Decoy Launchers
    * 10x Kroot
    .....8x Kroot Hounds (or just 18 Kroot if you have the models, don't need the hound's initiative except against the hormagaunts)
    * 10x Kroot
    .....8x Kroot Hounds (or just 18 Kroot if you have the models, don't need the hound's initiative except against the hormagaunts)

    * 8x Gun Drones
    * 8x Gun Drones

    * 1x Hammerhead w/ MT, Decoy Launcher
    * 1x Hammerhead w/ MT, Decoy Launcher

    No idea how many points that is, but it should give you a good idea of what type of Tau army I think will do extremely well against Nidzilla.

    Hope that helps, or at least gives you a good starting point.
    Last edited by ZenGamer; July 31st, 2008 at 15:13.
    -Thread Killer Bryan
    Tyranid Hive Fleet Typhoeus
    T'au Empire, Bork'an Sept

  6. #5
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenGamer View Post
    I think the priority should be roughly in this order:

    1) Hormagaunts
    2) Genestealers
    3) Flying Hive Tyrant
    4) Walking Hive Tyrant
    5) Elite Carnifexes
    6) Long Range Carnifexes
    This is a bit out. The flying Tyrant is probably the most dangerous model in this army. If this gets into your lines or hits your vehicles it will do a lot of damage and also more importantly provide Synapse. This should be of equal priority to the Hormies; however if you take the Flying Tyrant down the Hormies will need to stay in range of the walking Tyrant.
    If the Stealers have scuttle they will need stopping fast, with the new run rules the Stealers are still capable of covering ground fast and they do not need Synapse.

    I would go for this:

    1) Hive Tyrant (Flying)
    2) Hormies and Stealers
    3) Walking Tyrant
    4) Long range Carnies (thier shooting can be very dangerous)
    5) CC Carnies
    1984

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    Man, good luck. I watched a game with a friend of mine's tau versus 2 carnis, a tyrant, a zoa, and a bunch of genestealers and gaunts. The genestealers and gaunts were easy enough, but he wasn't able to even wound those 2+ save carnifexes, and the barbed stranglers decimated squad after squad.

  8. #7
    Senior Member ZenGamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru View Post
    This is a bit out. The flying Tyrant is probably the most dangerous model in this army. If this gets into your lines or hits your vehicles it will do a lot of damage and also more importantly provide Synapse. This should be of equal priority to the Hormies; however if you take the Flying Tyrant down the Hormies will need to stay in range of the walking Tyrant.
    If the Stealers have scuttle they will need stopping fast, with the new run rules the Stealers are still capable of covering ground fast and they do not need Synapse.

    I would go for this:

    1) Hive Tyrant (Flying)
    2) Hormies and Stealers
    3) Walking Tyrant
    4) Long range Carnies (thier shooting can be very dangerous)
    5) CC Carnies
    Good advice. But the hormagaunts will only need synapse if they're not in CC. If they are, they don't revert to instinctive behavior and they probably won't be making any LD rolls cause they likely won't lose combat.

    Also, the 5th edition run! rules did not change the speed of Genestealers... They had fleet in 4th edition. Scuttlers allow them to have the equivalent of a scout move, but it's an expensive upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by jh316 View Post
    Man, good luck. I watched a game with a friend of mine's tau versus 2 carnis, a tyrant, a zoa, and a bunch of genestealers and gaunts. The genestealers and gaunts were easy enough, but he wasn't able to even wound those 2+ save carnifexes, and the barbed stranglers decimated squad after squad.
    The Barbed Strangler on a Fex is Str 8. If the fire warriors are in devilfish, then they should survive for awhile. Forced glancing hits because of the skimmer rule and needing a 4+ to penetrate armor... The fishies should survive.
    -Thread Killer Bryan
    Tyranid Hive Fleet Typhoeus
    T'au Empire, Bork'an Sept

  9. #8
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    I am going to go against quite a few people who probably know what they are talking about and have more experience than me against this army, especially since i just took up this army about two weeks ago; but i digress. Anyway I would recommend you consider taking XV88s, if you have them, because they make excellent MC hunters, that TL str 10 ap 1 shot leads to a lot of wounds, even if your opponent does give his creatures warp field. and if he is playing a squad or two of horms kill the tyrants first because without synapse coverage horms are worthless.

    I say the kill order should be
    tyrants (killing both takes horms out of the equation, note this statement only applies to nidzilla)
    stealers and long range fexes (depends on how the game is progressing use your judgment)
    CC Fexes
    anything else
    Last edited by sideralarts; August 1st, 2008 at 08:01. Reason: added list

  10. #9
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenGamer View Post
    Good advice. But the hormagaunts will only need synapse if they're not in CC. If they are, they don't revert to instinctive behavior and they probably won't be making any LD rolls cause they likely won't lose combat.
    However removing synapse makes it harder to get into CC and leaves them open to shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenGamer View Post
    Also, the 5th edition run! rules did not change the speed of Genestealers... They had fleet in 4th edition. Scuttlers allow them to have the equivalent of a scout move, but it's an expensive upgrade.
    I did say STILL fast, they can still cover ground fast. Scuttle may be expensive but many players take it, if the Stealers in this Nid list have it then it needs to be taken into consideration. Stealers may not have the 12" assault move but they can still close down units fast and they can assault after running.



    Quote Originally Posted by ZenGamer View Post
    The Barbed Strangler on a Fex is Str 8. If the fire warriors are in devilfish, then they should survive for awhile. Forced glancing hits because of the skimmer rule and needing a 4+ to penetrate armor... The fishies should survive.
    I am wondering what weapons the Tyrants have and it would be good to know what weapons fit the ranged Carnies have.
    1984

  11. #10
    Senior Member ZenGamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru View Post
    However removing synapse makes it harder to get into CC and leaves them open to shooting.
    True, but I've never found synapse to be a problem. Then again, in a true Nidzilla list, there is very little synapse to go around, but the Synapse that is there is hard to crack. I would still suggest simply taking out the troops first.

    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru View Post


    I did say STILL fast, they can still cover ground fast. Scuttle may be expensive but many players take it, if the Stealers in this Nid list have it then it needs to be taken into consideration. Stealers may not have the 12" assault move but they can still close down units fast and they can assault after running.
    My mistake. And yes, the genestealers are fast, but they are pretty soft targets for the pulse rifles. If they have extended carapace then they have a 4+ save, but that is another expensive upgrade and they will still go down to rapid firing pulse rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru View Post

    I am wondering what weapons the Tyrants have and it would be good to know what weapons fit the ranged Carnies have.

    Most common builds are like this:
    Long Range Fex: Barbed Strangler, 1 shot, Str 8, Large blast.
    .........................Venom Cannon, 2 shots, Str 10
    .........................Usually a 2+ armor save and 5 wounds, at least if they were mine.

    These are dangerous for sure, but they have the same range as missile pods and will generally sit in cover if possible. However, that has become considerably harder in 5th edition because they have to actually be 1/2 or more blocked just like a vehicle. Simply being in cover no longer works.

    Elite Fex: 2x Twin-linked devourer, 8 TL shots, Str 6 (reroll to wound)
    or...........2x scything talons

    These can dish out massive damage, but are relatively easy to take down. Elite fexes will always have a 3+ armor save, T6, and 4 wounds, don't let your opponent claim otherwise because the upgrades would change this always put it over the points limit for it to be an Elite choice. It must be 114 points or less in a 1500+ point game to be an Elite

    If the Fexes are close combat, they are much less to worry about because of their small number of attacks and fairly slow nature, even with the Run! rule. Carnifexes, despite their high strength, really aren't very good at close combat. It's actually quite sad, they're all bark and no bite. They will still own fire warriors, but they can't kill very many per turn and they have a very low initiative which means the fire warriors will probably get away if they fail morale, which means they will then rapid fire the beast on the following turn even if they are still falling back.

    The Hive Tyrants will have more variation, and they may have devourers (max str 5), Venom cannons (max str 8 ) or Barbed stranglers (max str 5). Ranged weapons are less strong on the Tyrants, but they get more shots (except the Barbed Strangler, which only ever gets 1). They will almost always have a 2+ save, and sometimes a 6+ invulnerable save.

    If the flying tyrant is a CC tyrant, then it probably has 5 attacks, 6 on the charge. Flying CC tyrants are nasty, but I prefer a flying tyrant with 2 twin-linked devourers (12 TL shots, Str 5 w/ reroll to wound). OUCH!

    I would say the Tyrants are definitely the thing to take out first, but the CC Elite fexes will go down much easier and are pretty dangerous themselves. The Tyrants may be very hard to kill.
    Last edited by ZenGamer; August 1st, 2008 at 17:45.
    -Thread Killer Bryan
    Tyranid Hive Fleet Typhoeus
    T'au Empire, Bork'an Sept

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