Rule re: Deff Rolla and Tank Shock - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member farmergiles65's Avatar
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    Rule re: Deff Rolla and Tank Shock

    Can someone clarify the rulings regarding tank shocking when you have a deff rolla?

    I know that if you tank shock normally they take STR 10 hits lalala, but what about ramming? Technically the main rulebook says ramming is a special form of tank shock, so this suggests to me that if a battlewagon with a deff rolla rams another tank, as well as the normal ramming issues, that vehicle will take D6 STR 10 hits as well.

    Does that logic work, coz if so I'm sure as hell taking a battlewagon and ramming the hell out of everything!


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  3. #2
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    511 (x8)

    Well...

    All you have to do to damage a unit with the deffrolla, is make contact with it. Against normal non-vehicle models, this causes a tank shock effect as well.

    Now, if you're ramming a vehicle, you have to touch it. So the very fact the deffrolla is touching it means it inflicts the d6 STR 10 hits.

    The real question to me is: what happens if the deff rolla destroys the target? Do you still have to resolve the ram (and possibly take damage yourself)? Or is it the other way around, and you resolve the ram first, and then apply the hits from the deff rolla?

    I'll have to check the 5th edition book when I have the chance, but it's a very good question. If you're charging a giant deff rolla at an opponent, which is resolved first, and if it's the deff rolla and it destroys the target, do you still have to resolve the ram, possibly damaging your own vehicle? Do they happen simultaneously?

    Or a better question, when does the ram officially occur? Is it when any part of your vehicle touches the target, or just the hull? If it's the hull, then the deffrolla goes first, because it reaches the target before the hull does. There's many ways you could interpret the rules. I'd say, the effects happen simultaneously.
    Last edited by mynameisgrax; August 1st, 2008 at 14:49. Reason: forgot one thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    I'd say, the effects happen simultaneously.
    I agree with that. Just like a unit shooting, all shots happen together I figure this would hold true in the ram/deff rolla case. Its how I played it last weekend when I rammed a Chaos Rhyno, too bad my dice stunk and all I did was immobilze, weapon destroy and stun it :/

  5. #4
    Senior Member NovaJohn's Avatar
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    I'm going to throw another question out there just for clarification.

    I tank shock a dreadnought with my deffrolla battlewagon. The dread makes a death or glory attempt. What happens in each case?
    If the dread immobilises/destroys the battlewagon does it still take 1D6 hits, 2D6 or none?
    If the dread fails does it take 2D6 on its rear armour or 1D6 on the front (the initial hits worth) then 1D6 on the rear plus the ram?
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    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Stop the presses!

    Quote Originally Posted by NovaJohn View Post
    I'm going to throw another question out there just for clarification.

    I tank shock a dreadnought with my deffrolla battlewagon. The dread makes a death or glory attempt. What happens in each case?
    If the dread immobilises/destroys the battlewagon does it still take 1D6 hits, 2D6 or none?
    If the dread fails does it take 2D6 on its rear armour or 1D6 on the front (the initial hits worth) then 1D6 on the rear plus the ram?

    First of all, since the Dread is a vehicle, it can't be tank shocked. It has to be rammed, the same as if it were a tank or rhino. As a result, it can't make a death or glory attempt, but in the same fashion, you can't move it. Your battlewagon takes a hit for ramming though, just like normal.


    I just realized something very important! After reading the battlewagon entry, the deffrolla ONLY causes damage when it tank shocks. Since you can't tank shock a vehicle, the rolla actually has no effect on vehicles. You could still ram the enemy vehicle, but the result will be the same as if it didn't have the rolla.

    It makes sense, really. I mean, what would a steam roller do to a tank? Not much.
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    Member Zatnugg's Avatar
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    +2 Av?

    I'm pretty sure it doesn't but does the reinforced ram give +2 to the AV when ramming?

    The ork codex was wrote some time ago so maybe they didn't exactly have ramming in mind when they wrote it? They do say that ghazghkull's waaagh! gives you a fleet roll of 6 but as we all know with the new rolls it's a 'run' roll now as fllet only allows you to charge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    First of all, since the Dread is a vehicle, it can't be tank shocked. It has to be rammed, the same as if it were a tank or rhino. As a result, it can't make a death or glory attempt, but in the same fashion, you can't move it. Your battlewagon takes a hit for ramming though, just like normal.


    I just realized something very important! After reading the battlewagon entry, the deffrolla ONLY causes damage when it tank shocks. Since you can't tank shock a vehicle, the rolla actually has no effect on vehicles. You could still ram the enemy vehicle, but the result will be the same as if it didn't have the rolla.

    It makes sense, really. I mean, what would a steam roller do to a tank? Not much.
    Actually, walkers do get to make a Death or Glory attack against rams. But since rams are stated to be a kind of tank shock, then you would take 1d6 from the deffrolla, 2d6 if you death or gloried it.

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    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Nope

    Quote Originally Posted by Zatnugg View Post
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't but does the reinforced ram give +2 to the AV when ramming?

    The ork codex was wrote some time ago so maybe they didn't exactly have ramming in mind when they wrote it? They do say that ghazghkull's waaagh! gives you a fleet roll of 6 but as we all know with the new rolls it's a 'run' roll now as fllet only allows you to charge.
    No, the ram only gives +2 to the AV when receiving a 'death or glory' attack, and since that only occurs during a tank shock, it has no effect on ramming. It probably should, but it doesn't.

    I'm pretty sure they wrote the ork codex with 5th edition in mind, and in any case it would have to specifically say it worked during ramming in order for it work that way.

    If you think this is bad, go talk to a Daemonhunter player. Most of their special rules are meaningless now, since their codex was written so long ago. I also play Imperial Guard, and you won't believe how many doctrines no longer have any effect because of 5th edition changes. That's just the way it works in 40k. You have to go by the letter of the law, until they release a new FAQ or codex.

    I'm not sure if you're asking, but Ghazghkull works the same way it always has, but you have to call the waugghh before you run in order to get the full 6in movement. You could call it afterwards, but then you won't get the extra movement, since they already moved.
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  10. #9
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Half right

    Quote Originally Posted by jh316 View Post
    Actually, walkers do get to make a Death or Glory attack against rams. But since rams are stated to be a kind of tank shock, then you would take 1d6 from the deffrolla, 2d6 if you death or gloried it.

    Dang, I missed that part. I hate the way they laid out the 5th edition book.

    Anyway, yes, they do get a death or glory attack, but no, the deff rolla still does nothing to vehicles. The ork codex specifically says it can only be used when tank shocking, and even though the walker can make a 'death or glory' attack, it's still a ram, not a tank shock.

    They might change that in a FAQ, but as it stands, it doesn't do anything to a vehicle.
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