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Hey guys! Been gone for a couple of months and glad to be back. I have a quick question about Mad Dok Grotsnik and his Urty Syringe. More importantly, how his urty syringe interacts with his power klaw.
His syringe is a poisoned weapon that always wounds on a 4+. Among other things, the 5th ed rulebook basically says the same thing plus that if the wielder's strength is the same or higher than the toughness of the victim, the wielder must re-roll failed rolls to wound in CC.
We all know how and when the PK hits in CC. But, how do the two work together?
I've done a search on it site and found nothing, and I've looked through the codex and rulebook to no avail.
- The Urty Syringe just adds a single extra CC attack that hits on a 4+. (Doesn't say anything like this in the codex except for an attack squig, so I doubt this is right)
- All of the PK attacks hit on a 4+ due to the syringe. (Depending on the WS of the opponent, this may have no effect at all or could even hurt the Dok.)
- The Dok hits on a 4+ with his PK and re-rolls failed wounds due to the syringe. (I'm thinking this one is the closest to how the two interact.)
- Or, Some combination of the three or something totally different that I haven't even thought of?
Thanks for any help you can give me on this one...
These are 2 different special weapons, and as per the 5th edition rules, he may choose to use the effects of one or the other, not both, in any assault phase. He also does not get an additional attack due to having 2 1 hand weapons, as per 5th edition rules.
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Unless his opponent has a toughness of 9-10, the powerklaw will wound just as well or better, and deny his opponent their armor save/FNP roll. The syringe would attack at initiative, but the Mad Doc's initiative isn't good, so there isn't really a point. Even if his init was better, I'd much rather have the all but guaranteed kills at initiative 1.
Yeah, it's pretty much just there for flavor, since he's a painboy.
Since he has a slugga as well, is it possible to use the Urty and Slugga to get the +1 attack and not use the PK at all, thus avoid the rule for using two special weapons.
His init is indeed bad, but the option to go at init with +1 attack is at least a little better than going at init with the same number of attacks as PK.
I'm not sure if the 'poisoned weapons' rule has an effect here, as the syringe doesn't count as a poisoned weapon, it just had an identical effect in 4th edition.
Syringe: 6 attacks at WS 5 = 4 hits = 2 wounds = most likely 2 killed before they strike. If they count as 'poisoned' attacks, then it's 3-4 wounds, and 3-4 killed before they strike.
PK: 5 attacks at WS 5 = 3.33 hits = 2.5 killed after they strike.
Eh, it's pretty comperable, unless they count as poisoned weapons. I can see it being better in that case, but only against enemies that have a 5+ save or worse.
Under the Painboy section of the Codex, pg 38, it states that an Urty Syringe is a poisoned weapon. Under Grotsnik's wargear it lists an Urty Syringe, so he does infact have a PK, A Slugga and a Poisoned Weapon.
I was afraid that the urty syringe would just be another weapon to use instead of the PK. I'm with most of you in that I can see the syringe being useful once in a while against the right opponent. But, most often, it will be the PK doing the work, especially if the Dok is in a big group of boyz where the I1 won't hurt him.
Thanks everyone for all the input. Once again you have helped clear up a situation...