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As you all probably know I was a fan of and more than anyone pushed the idea of the Drone steel ring of protection. You know the one where the Drones formed a ring around the Shas'El/O and prevented it from being shot.
Well this idea can no longer be used (Damn) in 5th but I noticed some interesting wording in the independent character rules which just may give the Drone squadron idea a new lease of life.
The wording in question is to do with wound allocation and it goes something like this "the owning player can CHOOSE to allocate wounds to the character" (paraphrased to avoid copyright). Just check that word 'choose'. This to me is saying that if an IC joins a unit it can be targeted along with the unit (because obviously it is within the unit, which makes sense) but the player can CHOOSE to give/not give the IC wounds. This implies choice; I/E the owning player can choose to either:
(a) allocate the IC wounds
(b) not allocate the IC wounds
IC's usually have more wounds, which can mean giving a single wound to the IC can avoid the removal of another valuable model in the unit it is attached to. This is alluded to in the rules section where it says that though the model has multiple wounds giving it wounds is risky. This seems to imply that you have a choice, risk losing the IC or utilise its higher wound allocation to avoid losing other models in the unit.
If what I think is correct then taking a Drone squadron and joining it to a Shas'El will effectively mean that the Shas'El has 8 wounds to get through before the IC needs to be given any wounds.
This also seems to be backed up by the assault rules which say that an IC takes wounds separately in CC.
The rules say that an IC is classed as part of the unit for targeting I/E it but the point I want to clear up is does the rule about every member of a unit being given one wound apply to the IC as well, or does the 'choose' wording above negate that rule for units with an attached IC.
If the choose to apply wounds rule applies then the IC is going to make IC's a lot tougher to kill. I know the player is free to allocate wounds around a unit but the wording in the IC section seems to imply that the player can choose to ignore the IC when allocating wounds.
I am not saying this interpretation is correct, I am asking for opinions on what that 'Choose' wording seems to mean.
This is the way I see it;
SHas'el joins a unit of 8 drone.
1. The unit takes a wound and it can get allocated to the 'El.
2. Unit suffers 9 wounds one of them must be allocated to the 'El.
I can't remember at the moment but is there a majority save rule?
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All of which suggests the "ring-a-ring-a-roses, a pocketful of dronies" tactic much loved by Riki should still be perfectly valid - you can allocate any wounds taken to the drones until such time as the number of wounds taken equals the number of models left in the squad.
I know the owning player can choose which weapon wounds which model, but this is not saying that, it is saying the owning player can choose to allocate wounds to the IC, this by implication is saying that the owning player can choose NOT to allocate wounds. After all a choice has to have at least two options, does it not?
The rules only stipulate that the IC cannot be singled out as a target, it becomes a part of the unit for targeting purposes. However this has nothing to do with wound allocation.
Last edited by Rikimaru; August 6th, 2008 at 11:59.
I think they're restating it because before, you were not allowed to give an IC a wound to avoid losing a model. Now you can, and they're just making sure that everyone understands that.
One thing I am very certain of: They are not telling us that we can opt to not even wound the IC at all...
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As far as I remember when an IC was part of a unit it was allocated wounds as part of the unit in the 4th edition. You could not allocate wounds to an IC in CC unless you were in B2B with it but as far as shooting goes it was treated as part of the unit. You could not allocate wounds to multi wound models to avoid taking whole models, but that applied to all multi wound models..
If what you say applies then it is now possible to allocate wounds to avoid a model being removed, which is forbidden under the new rules is it not? (including multiple wound models) you can not for instance allocate a second wound to a model if all models had 'not' been allocated 1 wound. The only apparent exception to this seems to be this 'choose' rule.
I just find the whole phrasing of the rule puzzling, what do they mean by 'choose' to allocate wounds. If we read it as you can choose to not give wounds to the IC then it means the IC can be wound free until the last model in the unit is killed, the IC then becomes targetable in its own right until it joins another unit. You could in theory have an IC that never gets wounded simply by joining unit after unit and avoiding CC.
I am not arguing for any interpretation, I am simply pointing out an interpretation of a rule phrasing and putting it out for discussion I am not routing for either result. Also how will this apply to Retinues? Also how does this apply to IC controlled Shield Drones/Gun Drones etc
Last edited by Rikimaru; August 6th, 2008 at 14:14.
Related to the topic, and maybe it will help...
One thing I find fascinating about the new rules is that in a group of all unique models (say, XV8's that are all different), you are able to choose who gets wounded and it is therefore possible for each suit to have lost a wound when none have yet died.
This is because existing wounds have no bearing on wound allocation, only on casualty removal. Within a subgroup of identical multi-wound models, you must remove models where possible and cannot avoid removing models, but if there is no subgroup... you can allocate as you see fit as long as you follow the rules for "wound wrapping" when allocating wounds.
Example: 3 XV8's, all different. Two of them have one wound each, the third is unwounded. The unit receives one wound, you can allocated it to the unwounded model and then attempt a save. If that save is failed, you now have lost a wound on each of the suits, but none have died.
Edit: Oh and as for the discussion at hand, my guess Riki is that it is sloppy wording. But, I would think that it is certainly possible that this was GW's intention - afterall, in 4th edition there was a special rule to protect IC's so it stands to reason that there may have been some sort of similar rule in 5th edition. I will review the appropriate sections when I get a chance and get back with a more detailed answer.
Last edited by ZenGamer; August 6th, 2008 at 15:36.
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Heh. As far as I can tell, everybody's got it right! Posting to see if a bit of restatement can clarify for all involved.
But first, one thing worth noting is a new 5th edition rule that states that any lone IC model is automatically joined to a unit if the IC model is within 2" (squad coherency distance) of it. (Assuming, of course, that the model in question is eligible to join squads. Most Monstrous Creature models can't.) So in the drone ring example, the IC has no choice but to be joined to the squad of drones, making a unit of 9 models where 8 of the models have the same game profile (the drones) and 1 of the models is different (the IC).
When shooting at the IC drone ring, the owning player may allocate wounds to models in the unit in any way s/he likes. The only restriction is that no model can receive a 2nd wound until every model has received at least one wound. (And no model can receive a 3rd wound until every model has received at least two, and so on....) So if the drone ring takes a single wound from enemy fire, you can put it on the IC if you like. Or on a drone. Your choice. If you take 8 wounds, all of them can go on the drones, or 7 can go on the drones and 1 can go on the IC. If the unit takes at least 9 wounds, than every model will have at least one wound allocated to it, including the IC.
Wound allocation in close combat works exactly the same way. The only difference is when an IC is involved. In which case, you treat the IC model as if it was its own independent unit. Opposing models who are eligible to attack the IC are the only models that will be capable of putting wounds on the IC, and if wounds are scored, the IC will have to save them. You won't be able to distribute wounds the IC takes to the drones because, in close combat, the drones are a distinct, separate unit. Likewise, wounds the drones take can't be distributed onto the IC either.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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