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  1. #1
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    Dawn of War tactic with report

    I just played a game with DoW deployment and kill points. I had 16 kill points and the marine player had 10 at 1750. He won first turn and I even if I had won the die roll I was going to let him have it - I was confident of the terrain layout and my list configuration for DoW. He wanted to play 1500 but I insisted on 1750 so he borrowed some models and pieced this list together.

    My list:

    Archon, agoniser, sp, SF, CD, trophy rack
    Haemonculus, destructor, scissor hand, combat drugs, haywire, WWP
    Haemonculus, destructor, scissor hand, combat drugs, haywire, trophy rack
    7 Grotesques on a raider w/horrorfex & scaling nets (raider used for super gunboat)
    8 Wyches, succ w/aggy and 2 blasters on a raider
    14 man warrior squad, 2 lances, 2 shredders, sybarite w/poison blades & wwp
    10 man warrior squad, 2 cannons, 2 blasters, sybarite w/poison b & xenospasm
    8 man raider squad, cannon, blaster, sybarite w/aggy on raider w/horrorfex
    8 man raider squad, lance, blaster, sybarite w/poison blades on raider w/horrorfex
    Ravager with 3 lances
    Ravager with 1 lance & 2 disintegrators
    Ravager with 3 disintegrators

    He had a vanilla list of marines, roughly:

    master in term armor
    chaplain w/jump pack
    terminators
    Snipers with krak
    Scouts w/pistols & plasma
    2 tac squads with plasma & fist
    2 ass squads with plasma & fist
    2 venerable dreadnaughts

    He put his chaplin fairly close to the center with 2 flanking tactical marine squads about 18" away on either side - they were quite spread out and for me focusing on one side would easily isolate the other.

    I deployed a 14 man warrior squad with the wwp in a building on the side that I wasn't going to advance on and a 10 man warrior squad on the other (they were going to be used as a "super gunboat" configuration).

    This is what setup looked like, I forgot to add infiltrated scout snipers behind the chaplain. I accidently allowed him to infiltrate his scouts but I didn’t mind.



    Now here is the part I like about DoW is that I can put a Haemy with a wwp on a raider of Grotesques with another Haemy (so theres 2 of them on board and both have drugs) and have them enter on turn 1 from the bottom board edge anywhere along the bottom board edge. Of course, that raider is going to be used as the "super gunboat" as it will land next to the 10 man warrior squad (that were placed at preselected location for a portal).

    So before I started moving I saw where his units were and where his biggest threats were. He had 2 assault squads near the chaplin on my left flank moving quickly on the large warrior squad so putting a portal down in the 1st turn would allow units coming out to get into charge easily (plus I lost 3 warriors to snipers and didn’t want to take another pinning test).



    The grotesque raider had scaling nets and when the 2 Haemys and the grotesques got off the raider (and ran into 4+ cover) the 10 man warrior squad (with 2 blasters, 2 splinter cannons and a sybarite with xenospasm) got on.

    The super gunboat was already within 12" of a flanking marine squad and instead of firing the lance I decided to use the horrorfex instead. So I ended up pinning the marine squad hitting 7 marines for a -6 to the leadership and 3 more marines (rolling badly). Also, the 14 man wwp lance squad both hit but failed to either glance or penetrate one of the venerable Dreadnaughts.



    If this had been a different setup plan I probably would have put the Haemys and grots on the table to start with and perhaps even the Archon but I have found that I definitely do not like putting any of the ravagers on the board as they either get shot in the first turn and crash or I get to shot them once in the first turn and then they get shot and crash.

    The super gunboat was pretty much the star of the game as it was always shooting every turn and had pinned a marine squad for 3 consecutive turns. Once the second wwp was deployed by the Haemonculus they charged the pinned raider squad after a destructor shot that brought them down to 3 marines – they marines were doomed.

    Once I had the portal open I pretty much dictated the flow of the game as he foolishly kept advancing his troops and ignoring the dangers of what the portal might bring him. His chaplain had a teleport homer and his master and terminators teleported in the middle of the board wrecking a ravager that just killed 5 assault marines of the chaplain. Of course, the Archon coupled with the wyches (with +1 attack) charged those terminators as well as one of the drug-crazed Haemonculi who had to use 4 drugs to get there (in which he took a wound). The Haemy killed his terminator, the wyches killed one terminator and the Archon put 2 wounds on the master with only receiving 1 wych casualty. The master and terminators all died in the following turn (which was perfect for me).

    In this game 2 of 3 ravagers were the dogs of the game, with 2 turns of concentrated fire on one of the 2 venerable Dreadnaughts they only managed a “weapon destroyed” result – man I hate venerables and my dice rolling for them was incredibly bad. None of them survived the game.

    By turn 5:

    I had 8 of 11 kill points – master, chaplain, terminators, 2 assault squads, 2 tac squads and a scout squad. (he still had both dreadnaughts and the snipers)

    He had 6 of 16 kill points – 3 ravagers, the large warrior squad and a just a raider squad but not the raider. (I still had the Archon, both Haemonculi, grotesques, wyches and raider, raider squad and raider,a warrior squad and a raider from the killed raider squad).

    I let my opponent roll the die to see if the game ended and he rolled a “2” to end it – he was pretty disappointed so I let him roll it again and he rolled a “1” so I had to insist the game was over.

    The funny thing over all is that I felt I was taking him apart and was pretty much in control but when we counted the kill points it was a little closer than I thought. If the game had gone another turn he might have added 2 more kill points to the list where I also had a chance of gaining 2 more as well (his would have been easier though, just down 2 raiders or down a raider and snipe the Haemonculus that had one wound on him).

    Overall, this is how I am going to be approaching all my games, I prefer moving 2nd unless I got a super speedy horde army and I feared I wouldn't be able to get my portals opened in the first turn.

    Last edited by KwiKwag; August 16th, 2008 at 00:06.
    "On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]

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  3. #2
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    Very well done, Kwi, and thanks for the report. I think I may try the Super Gunboat strategy sometime. I only wonder... what happened to the Grotesques? They seemed to have left the field after getting off the Raider.

    It's kind of scary how many KP we can hand over to the enemy... same thing happened in one of my recent games.

  4. #3
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkspawn327 View Post
    I only wonder... what happened to the Grotesques? They seemed to have left the field after getting off the Raider.
    Exactly! Once they killed off the marine squad there were no viable targets for them to target. I wanted to stay clear of the 2 dreadnaughts as I didn't want to get into CC with them so I ran them straight to the right and out of charge range. The only target they could really have fun with were the snipers but the dreads were in the way so I thought I would play it safe and not give him any ideas (out of sight and out of mind).

    It's kind of scary how many KP we can hand over to the enemy... same thing happened in one of my recent games.
    My intentions was to play for "wipe out" but if I took the lead in kill points then I was going to manage what my risks accordingly. If I had another turn or two I do think I could have cleared the board of him completely (if the dice gods were going to let me re-roll the venerables better). Its unfortunate that we are a "mechanized" army and kill points punishes us for it so I feel we should embrace it and try to clear the board. Once you make a list for "wipe out" the troop choices actually hold you back so I kept them at a decent number (in case I discover I cannot wipe out the enemy) and went very shooty versus close combat. I think I found my balance here - I will try it again this weekend with the same list.
    "On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]

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    The cool thing is that nothing matters if you completely annihilate the enemy... meaning once these low KP armies take out 2-3 Raiders or whatever, you may as well ditch the 'careful use of speed to kill while not being killed' strategy and go to the full out berzerker rage strategy.

    Ravagers are generally really awesome at demolishing enemy infantry for me, and if it got to the point where I stopped skirting around for 4+ cover saves or heading close to cover and started nuking hunkered down marines with 9 Disintegrators a turn, it shouldn't be too hard to wipe em all out... doesn't matter if we lose any more at that point right?

    By the way, you could point out what page the rules for kill points and annihilation mission are on? I can't seem to find them and I would like to study it more closely.
    Last edited by darkspawn327; August 17th, 2008 at 03:35.

  6. #5
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkspawn327 View Post
    By the way, you could point out what page the rules for kill points and annihilation mission are on? I can't seem to find them and I would like to study it more closely.

    Try page 91, the bottom left box.

    And Kwi I like your enthusiasm and love for the game.

    Wicky.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  7. #6
    Senior Member andrewthotep's Avatar
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    Nice game report! Very useful too to see another 5th ed matchup since I've only had two with my Kabal.

    Your comment about ravagers strikes a chord with me. I used to run two ravs with x3 disintegrators for chewing up troops, but I have found in the matches since 5th ed that BS4 doesn't compensate for the blast templates scattering - or maybe it's my dice-rolling. I'm looking at dropping them in favour of more wyches, I think.

    The annoying thing is that 5th ed makes it perceptably tougher to drop enemy vehicles. A x3 darklance rav looks good on paper for compensating for this, but I fear that it's too fragile.

  8. #7
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    I will be posting another report with Dawn of War deployment and 3 objectives soon.

    As for the ravagers, I have been having some terrible luck lately and the ravagers have not been producing. I am thinking 3 ravagers tend to make me rely in shooting more than moving or assault and this isn't helping when the rest of the list is too busy flying around the board.

    So I am thinking of dropping 1 ravager for another troop choice. Right now the extra bodies and the "claiming" objectives of another warrior squad seem to outweigh what a single ravager can really do especially if the warrior squad can put out a comparable amount of fire themselves.

    Its just a thought but I am thinking of dropping the 2nd ravager (the one with 1 lance and 2 dissys) and adding a warrior squad with 2 lances and 20 or so points left over (to either add blasters, shredders or add more bodies). This would bring me to 5 scoring units but keep the kill points the same.

    I still like the 3 lance ravager, it will always have a place for my list as it tends to shut down whatever its shooting at even if its just a "shaken" or "stunned" result. I am still playing with the 3 disintegrater ravager as I think it has a place to wallop fancy elite squads and hordes which my list would have troubles with (its still on active probation) or my wyches are tackling something else.

    Just some ideas to toss around.
    "On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]

  9. #8
    Senior Member andrewthotep's Avatar
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    The down side of dropping a ravager is that it concentrates incoming fire more on the remaining vehicles. Vehicles are like carnifexes: one gives the opponent a priority, two are a checklist, three or more are a painful choice. Not sayin' I don't agree with you, tho'.

  10. #9
    Set Sail and Conquer! Cadaver Junkie's Avatar
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    Nice that you had a good game!

    However, this bit:

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    I was confident of the terrain layout and my list configuration for DoW. He wanted to play 1500 but I insisted on 1750 so he borrowed some models and pieced this list together.
    Makes me wonder a little bit. Nice of him to play a game with an unbalanced army list!
    "Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"

    Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.

  11. #10
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadaver Junkie View Post
    Makes me wonder a little bit. Nice of him to play a game with an unbalanced army list!
    First, I only thought it was fair that I mention that but his original list was worse - he borrowed a dreadnaught and the assault squad to boost 250 points. He didn't have any "heavy" selections to begin with so I thought the extra dreadnaught made his list a lot better (balanced) than without (since both his deads survived and they downed all the ravagers with only losing an armament). I do think his list needs more long range heavy action but he would rather have the extra bodies.

    The actual purpose of the thread was not the result of the game but observing the factors and tactics of the opening turns of Dawn of War (which is why I only put 3 maps of showing the 1st turn. I have found a successful first turn or two makes all the difference in a WWP list - if the portals go down where I want them the game is a lot easier for me.
    "On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]

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