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With an I6 (7 on the charge), WS5, rending weapons and an invulrable save, is there much that can take down a full Harlequin troupe easily? I mean, i love using these guys and usually find that just dice all that come into contact with.
Take a squad of lets say 10 Harlequins, include a Troupe master with a power weapon and the rest have a halequins kiss..... What can match that in combat? On the assault or when being assaulted?
Thought i throw that out there as personally, i don't think there is much if anything.
Please please prove me wrong though!
Of the Top of my Head:
Bloodletters WS5 3attacks all with power weapon inv save
Daemonettes WS4 4 attacks rending inv save
Genestealers WS6 4attacks (with scything talons) rending
Nid Warriors WS4 scything and rending 4attacks 2wounds each
So yes, there is just as many.
Im sure Orks will have something of equal also. But really Bloodletters or Genestealers are imo as good if not better vs armoured troops ie Marines/termin/necrons.
I play against daemons a lot and you do not want to get charged by BLetters or daemonettes and Seekers are really really nasty with fleet and 12" charge they have a minimum 19" effective assault range and a max of 24" and they have a high inititave and 5 attacks on the charge. You will lose about 8.33 harlies in the first round for the loss of about 6.67 Seekers.
Rending is just a 1/6 power weapon at the end of the day so 10 Bloodletters are more dangerous than 10 Harlies.
With veil of tears and the ignore diff terrain, I beleive Harlies are a bit more flexible but they certainly are not undefeatable....
....but they are always the best dressed.
With harlequins you have to be worried about ANY attacks back.
Speaking of attacks. Halequins have 4 attacks on the charge, all at S4 and rending. Sure rending is 1/6, but a 10 man squad throwing 40 attacks, slightly more with the troupe master, you're looking to take a few models down, and that's before you start rolling to wound on all the others! I can't see how that will leave anyone left to attack back. Even if they are charged by any of these demons/aliens metioned, they all have the same initiative or less, so at best will attack at the same time. Again, the Harlequins are going to leave a mess of any of these. Oh, and as they have the hit and run skill, if you do decide to charge these guys, any of them that survive are only going to break free from combat and then charge in the next round, just to finish the job!
I am slightly bias as i love these guys, but lets face it, you're never going to take on a Harlie troupe thinking that you're going to wipe the floor with them, are you?
Ahhh 4ed rending! Sadly in 5ed rending only kicks in on rolls of 6 to wound not to hit - an enormously significant difference.
Harlies still rock, but not as much as they used to.
I forgot about the S4 on the charge though - cheers.
I'm actually playing my first 10 man Harly squad tomorrow so I'll let you know how much blood they spill.
Don't forget the +1 initiative also.
This is true about the rending, but also prevents arour saves, and lets face it with a W5 most of the hit will hit home.
Don't miss understand me Harlies are execellent, but they are not the be all and end all of melee.
Hell if you was playing eldar vs eldar, and your harlies got charged by banshee's I would honestly doubt any Harlies would be left to hit back at the end of the shee's melee, unless the dice gods where shining down on the harlies.
But again 10 Harlies with troupe master, and shadowseer all with kiss's is serious amount of points. So they need to kick out lots of damage to make it back.
Personally love harlies but most of the time I just can't justify putting them in my list over either scorpions or banshee's. As most of the time the fore mentioned do more or less the same amount of damage.
Very few time i will charge an opponent on equal terms, thats a good way to lose.
Wear them down a bit with scatterlaser/prism/DA firepower then finish them off with scorpions/banshee's.
For that very reason Harlies just dont justify there points to me.
Meh i went a bit of topic, But to answer your question again yes harlies can lose, but they kick out so much damage you can play badly with them and still do ok.
Anything with large groups...say a mob of 30 boys will defeat harlies.
Your charge will kill roughly 15 boys, the 15 that strike back will likely end that harlie squad. That's mental math in public, so far from exact, but the principle is true. Mobs, CC horde=bad for harlies. You don't want anything hitting/shooting back!
My harlies only hunt select prey, they are specialists like th rest of the eldar list.
They are good, but far from the top CC devil in this game.
"Orcs are what happens when Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles grow old and bitter."
All I would like to add to this thread is the ability of Doom to give harlies a second chance to make their rending roll, which they have fewer chances of now that it is on the to wound roll. This gives Harlequins a marked advantage over every other unit with rending since every failed wound gives them another shot at instant wounds.
This basically translates to the tougher the unit, the better the chance harlies have to reroll any nonrending attacks they deal during the combat. Ergo, Harlies are made to eat the units that hunt our troops, such as DPs, TMCs, and heavy infantry, if used with this in mind the arguement posed is moot, since most of the units proposed as counters to harlies shouldnt even be in combat with them if the eldar general is playing the army correctly.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left" Bertrand Russell
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.