Welcome to Librarium Online!
Since seeker missiles and SMSs don't require LOS, do they also ignore LOS cover saves? For example, seeker missile wounds a marine who is standing behind sandbags. Does he get 4+ cover? My thought is that since there's nowhere to realistically draw LOS from, he can't get that save. Area terrain saves still apply I assume. Sorry if this has been asked and resolved elsewhere, but I couldn't find it in the errata.
Edit: I just thought of another question. Can a seeker missile use up a marker light counter to reduce the cover on an obscured vehicle (like a rhino with smoke launchers)? If so, can a salvo of missiles benefit from the same counters or does each one need to use up its own? For example, 5 counters on one rhino that just used smoke launchers. 2 counters used for 2 missiles. 3 used to eliminate the saves for both missiles, or just one?
Last edited by FunnyHat; August 29th, 2008 at 21:56.
For your first question, I don't know the answer but am very interested. Hopefully someone smarter than I will chime in soon.
For your second question, after reading the codex entry for marker lights, it seems that the question is who is the firing unit for seeker missiles? Cover saves can be reduced from the effects of "the firing unit's shooting". I would rule that if all the Seekers come from the same source at the same time (i.e. all from the same Skyray), then they can all benefit from the reduced cover saves.
-Thread Killer Bryan
Tyranid Hive Fleet Typhoeus
T'au Empire, Bork'an Sept
The missile doesn't need LOS to hit the target, meaning that it basically fires up over a forest (or whatever), turns over and goes after the target on its own. Or that the missile's sensors can see through walls and it simply blasts through them to get at its target.
But regardless of how it's fired, it's still being fired from point A, and travelling to hit its target at point B. If this takes it across the target's cover, it should still apply.
Unless you're arguing that the missile soars all the way over to point C, then turns 180 degrees to come after target B from behind, it still has to go through the cover to make the kill.
Presumably a sandbag or barrier or whatever provides cover because it stops some of the projectiles being fired at the target. If a missile navigates over a wall to seek it's target, wouldn't the same apply to a smaller barrier? Are you saying that a wall that covers a unit entirely (and blocks LOS) grants the unit no save against a seeker, but a 3 foot high barrier that covers them up to the waist does? Or are you claiming that they both grant cover saves?
My main point is that there's no real way to draw line of sight, so how can you use the true line of sight rules to claim that there's cover? Area terrain clearly does not follow this rule, so a marine in a forest get's his 4+, or so it seems.
To address your last point, consider the following diagram:
AAAA-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->WALL THAT BLOCKS LOS-->BBBB<---<---<---<---<---CCCCC
It seems that in this scenario the missile has to come from somewhere to hit B. Maybe not from C, but perhaps from above. Why can't the same be true if it's cover rather than a wall?
Last edited by FunnyHat; August 30th, 2008 at 02:20.
For all cover and armor value purposes, treat the missile as a line of sight weapon, just ignore terrain when determining whether or not the weapon con shoot.
So should my strategy be to shoot at targets I can't see so they can't get cover? Or do I treat an intervening wall that blocks LOS as cover as well? Since cover is a line of sight deal now, intervening terrain sometimes makes it difficult to actually determine whether sandbags give cover if there's no LOS.
Last edited by FunnyHat; August 30th, 2008 at 04:29.
I believe the Tau Codex explicitly says that you get cover saves from SMS wounds...maybe it was in the last edition Codex? The rationale is that while the missile can find you and home in, you can still hide behind a tree or sandbag at the last instant--the SMS shots have a drone's intelligence, not a drone's mobility. Similar logic for the seeker missile.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
Black8 has the gist of it. You draw line of sight from the viewpoint of the vehicle from which the seeker missile was launched. That vehicle doesn't require LOS to hit -- the markerlight hit takes care of the targeting legalities -- but cover is always determined from the viewpoint of the firer. And that would be whatever carried the seeker missile. This is why it's possible for a flanking piranha or skyray to hit side or rear armour with their seekers even if the target vehicle was marked from the front armour arc.
Regarding the 2nd question of markerlight hits and multiple seeker missiles ... I have no idea! I can see it argued either way. I am tempted to think that cover would have to be modified for each missile fired, following the example that multiple units firing at a marked target require their own markerlight hits. Tokens can't be shared between units. While seekers aren't units ... it's a similar principle, as they are explicitly one-shot weapons.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
Hmm... Ok i guess I'm outnumbered here. I have a few diagrams now and i'd like people to weigh in on cover or no. The "x"s are really high LOS-blocking terrain, the "|"s are typical sandbags, the "o"s are enemy guardsmen, and the "" is a SMS toting hammerhead.
In this case, since one guardsman is in LOS and two are out, that unit gets cover saves as per 5th edition rules. What everyone seems to be saying is that the cover save is available against the SMS as normal. Now the next diagram:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------HTML Code:xxxx o  xxxx o xxxx o
Now the hammerhead has no LOS, but the SMS doesn't require it. Cover saves? If they don't, I guess I'll be keeping walls in between my targets and my SMSs/skyrays. Ok, now one last one:
 xxxx |o
Cover? Wow, each time I write down a scenario, i think of like 5 more.
Last edited by FunnyHat; August 30th, 2008 at 04:25.
SMS definitely allows cover saves. P.27 Codex TE.
The same goes for Seekers, as it does NOT say in the codex that they ignore cover. Weapons which ignore cover saves are clearly marked: Air Frag Projector, for example.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"