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  1. #1
    Member Cut Your Ribbon's Avatar
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    Mech guardian army?

    Hi,

    I am currently painting up an elder army in the colours of ulthwe.

    Ive always wanted a mech army and well its tau or elder for the win here and I already owned so much elder I figured id just use them, and I like them way more, they can do anything better than anyone. Tau its just shooting and avoiding cc.

    Is a guardian based mech army feasible? Or is it dire avengers all the way? I ask this because an ulthwe army without any guardians is like playing a Khorne daemons army without any bloodletters, it just seems so wrong.

    I like the fact storm guardians can carry two flamers and the warlock can have a heavy one as well so thatís going to eat horde, and defenders can jump out of the serpent and still shoot their heavy weapon which will be great for hitting side armour and things, but does it work?

    I normally play a very defensive elder army, but for this army I really want to rush forward and be in the other armies face, and this worries me as guardians always fail in CC, but then again Iíve never used storm guardians.

    Anyone who has run an army similar to what ive said, can you tell me how it works and what its strengths and weaknesses are.

    Lol at least this isnít another poll, elder forums seem to be drowning in those.

    "Playing it safe is the most popular way to fail." - Elliott Smith.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member ShaselMudd's Avatar
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    I have been a horde type eldar player now since Ive started a little while ago but I find myself picking up more and more waveserpents slowly turning into a mech army. I have found that I really like the Dire Avengers better than Guardians but you have a very valid point in fluff that you almost have to have guardians if your playing Ulthwe. If it sounds like fun to you go for it and play. You could always paint up the DA's in the color of Ulthwe if you wanted to but that would be up to you. If you stick with guardians you should be able to get quite a few squads with them only being 8 points a piece so you may turn into a horde mech army which would be very interesting. I would say try it out and see how it goes.
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    Oh, don't worry, a Guardian-based Ulthwť Mech army is very, very doable and will make people hate you. It generally involves either taking Eldrad or two Farseers. If you take Farseers, Doom and Fortune are your friends. Beyond the HQ, it looks like this:

    3x: 272pts each
    10x Storm Guardians, 2x Flamers
    Warlock, Destructor
    Wave Serpent, TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones

    3x Fire Prism, give them Holo field are your discretion, I generally don't.

    Without HQ, the three squads of prisms and serpents will run you 1161 points, so you can increase numbers of the troops as points allow, I tend to play 1500 point games, though, so I generally stop at three serpent crews.

    The basic tactic is fly away from anything that can do real damage in close range, like meltas, and killing them. Destroy cocky Marines who step outside of cover with a linked Fire Prism S6 AP3 large blast. Destroy cocky Terminators with their S9 AP2 small blasts. So your lances don't work on Monoliths? Those S9 or linked S10 AP1 shots from your Prisms sure do. All at 60" solo, unlimited range linked. These guys should never be in range of anything that can shoot back at them.

    With your Wave Serpents, either keep them out of range, or only come into range to drop of the Guardians and Warlock, Torch the face off of something, shoot whatever lives, then get back in the Serpent next turn. It's better to boost 24" away from someone than to risk being blown up by something that can kill you.

    You have to play defensively with your Serpents and Prisms, but the dual flamers and heavy flamer, followed by 9 more pistol shots, all on a squad that was hopefully Doomed the turn before make for a very aggressive line of Storm Guardians. Oh yeah, you can cast Fortune and Doom from within the Serpent. Hurray 5th edition.

  5. #4
    Member Cut Your Ribbon's Avatar
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    you can cast Fortune and Doom from within the Serpent. Hurray 5th edition.
    I dunno this is highly debated and i dont want to rely on it as a main tactic as if its not allowed then im gona be in trouble.



    Ive decided i am going to built this style army, i love avengers but guardians are seriously underappreciated, plus its a pretty cool model.

    Im going to play a half mech/half ground based army

    mech side (wave 1) including two or three squads of storm guardians in serpent with the triple flamer action.

    And then for ground based forces 1 or two guardian defender squads with EML, with wraithlord, farseer and avatar.

    and then two prisms sitting back shooting what presents itself.

    If the farseer is allowed to cast from tanks he might go in a serpent.

    I think as for sticking to the Ulthwe theme this is fairly close, i was thinking about taking two farseers but am unsure about it.

    It will be an unusual Eldar army and different playing style but i think it will be good fun.
    "Playing it safe is the most popular way to fail." - Elliott Smith.

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    Resident Mongoose Mongooseo's Avatar
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    Alternatively:
    12x Guardians, 2x Fusion Guns
    Warlock: Enhance
    Wave Serpent of your choice

    They hit harder in close combat then most people give them credit for. If they are backed by guide, doom, or both, well, the results are actually pretty good, even against space marines.
    In addition, you can actually put guardians with a heavy weapons platform in a wave serpent, giving you the oppurtunity to move your defender quads around to better claim objectives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribbons
    I dunno this is highly debated and i dont want to rely on it as a main tactic as if its not allowed then im gona be in trouble.
    This is not debatable at all. In 4th the spells could not be cast from within the transport because it was stated quite clearly that models within a transport are not considered on the board. However, this completely changed in 5th; it is quite clearly written that models within a transport are considered on the field. This is why troops in a transport are still considered scoring when transports themselves are not. Now, spells that require Line of Sight (Eldritch Storm and Mind War) cannot be cast from within the transport because the serpent is not open-topped and has no shooting port. Spells that don't require any kind of line of sight, merely proximity, can be cast as if the model were standing on the field. Fortune, Guide, and Doom have proximity limits, but are not considered to require LoS because they aren't "shooting" spells.

    Now, as far as you wanting to go half-mech, half-walking... I'd suggest you bring your farseer in a serpent. If you fight MEq's often, those flamer squads will need Doom to inflict the kind of pain necessary to clean the board of 10 Marines in one go. If you can't get Doom on them, you might want to consider doubling up against large squads of Marines/Sisters/Necrons/etc. Actually, with Necrons, soften them up with S9 AP2 Fire Prism shooting since they can't "We'll Be Back" from instant kills and they tend to run in groups too large for a single triple flamer squad to kill.

  8. #7
    Member Cut Your Ribbon's Avatar
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    @ Kirbinator - If you go to the rules help section of the 40k forums there was a discussion i was involved in about this.

    I put the argument across that we can do it, but it was still not 100% accepted, and i can understand why, the rules about what a unit can do whilst in a vehicle are clearly stated in the rule book or FAQ’s, there are rules for their special abilities still working, being scoring, its movement, its shooting, how to measure to it and what not. But it doesn’t say anything about still being able to cast psychic powers, or the ability to target a unit within a vehicle, no where does it say you can do it, it doesn’t say you can’t but it doesn’t say you can either, this is why I am often told I can’t target embarked units, and as for casting from within a vehicle with no fire points, it’s been argued that the only reference to psychic powers within a vehicle is in the rules for fire points, it doesn’t specifically say its in regards to shooting powers only so its been taken by some to mean, if you dont have a fire point you can’t use a psychic power at all, i think this doesn’t make sense, as if you follow the rules for fire points when casting a non shooting eldar psychic power you are essentially breaking the rules because you are measuring from the fire point not the ships hull which is the rule, but some people still wont allow it until its FAQ'd, the people i play with oppose it but they are cool and let me do it because its all in fun and they are not about being bad sports but in a tournament situation, which I’m designing this army for, I cant count on the same attitudes.

    NOW back on topic lol

    I am still torn if I should go all out mech, I would love to do it but its just more serpents to paint lol
    I will have to run a few test games and see what style suits me better, the half mech half ground style I said before is getting really close to the army I play normally (except I only will be using guardians lol) and I kind of want to avoid this.

    As for the fusion guns,
    I don’t think id do it as it seriously reduces the embarked squads ability to deal with mass infantry and BS 3 isnt very kind to me. There will be a warlock with a spear or witch blade so tanks won’t be a problem and all my serpents are going to be equip with twin linked EMLs.


    Really the only aspect warriors I can see making it into this army will be swooping hawks because I really like the models and landing, dropping bombs then flying off is just so annoying to my opponents lol ^_^ fun fun (I can see a great sportsmanship score coming along here haha), also they will be great at snatching objectives the last turn of the game, assuming the dice agree with me when it’s time to end.

    I think two flamers and a heavy flamer will be amazing at dealing with any type of infantry, I will have to drop them off closer then I normally would with dire avengers in the serpent, and this will leave them really exposed to counter attack, I’m not sure if your allowed to place templates under a tank and it will seriously reduce what I can hit with them so I can’t even hide behind the serpent that well. But they should reduce the unit down enough so that they will have superior numbers when they assault and clean things up.

    @ Mongooseo – yeah I was thinking about putting defenders in serpents jumping out and shooting vehicle side armour with scatter lasers, also their guns better fire rate will balance out their lower attacks in cc as they will hit just as easily and wound easier than a CC attack, without the danger of being hit back

    But they loose two flamers which are autohit and take away cover saves.

    Have you done this in the Ulthwe army you played? I really want to give storm guardians a try as the model is interesting and I’ve never seen anyone using them, but this tactic using defenders looks awesome. I might take a mix.
    "Playing it safe is the most popular way to fail." - Elliott Smith.

  9. #8
    Resident Mongoose Mongooseo's Avatar
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    The fusion guns were only thrown in to cause another casualty or two in the MEQ squad I'd be assaulting with them. If I didn't shoot them and used fleet instead, I wouldn't really be crushed. Aside from the witchblade attacks, you're looking at 33 S3 WS4 I5 (with enhance) attacks. With doom backing them up, you'll trash your average MEQ squad, or horde for that matter. But if you're going after hordes, you're better off with the triple flamer idea.
    I briefly expiremented with the above ideas back in 4th, and had decent success with them. In fifth, with the larger amounts of troops, I'd expect they would do slightly better, since there will be more viable targets for your storm guardians, and something for your guardian defenders to do.
    The other idea I thought of was to put three D-Cannons in a falcon and see just what kind of havoc I could wreak when disembarking. Never did get toy try that out though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cut Your Ribbon View Post
    Really the only aspect warriors I can see making it into this army will be swooping hawks because I really like the models and landing, dropping bombs then flying off is just so annoying to my opponents lol ^_^ fun fun (I can see a great sportsmanship score coming along here haha), also they will be great at snatching objectives the last turn of the game, assuming the dice agree with me when it’s time to end.
    I thought only troops could claim objectives in 5th - not elites or any other category... in which case they Hawks couldn't take objectives.

    EDIT: sorry about the OT question.

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    drop them in and contest an objective is what i mean by that, if they are close enough it wont mater what my opponent has near an objective he wont be scoring for it. Two smallest possible squads of hawks i am thinking, but we will see what points allow.
    "Playing it safe is the most popular way to fail." - Elliott Smith.

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