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With 5th edition, I'm coming to believe that rokkits just aren't effective as anti-armor anymore. Rokkit buggies are still nice, and tankbustas can still do damage, but the rokkit's real strength is now causing instant death and ignoring 3+ armor, not dealing with tanks.
Recently, someone said that lootas aren't good at damaging armor, and for the life of me, I can't think of what unit could do better, besides perhaps the warp 'ead (and I just don't have the empty HQ slots these days).
A squad of 10 lootas puts out 20 shots on average, which is about 7 hits, and will wreck most vehicles. If it's armor 10, then you'll inflict vehicle damage 4-5 times. Armor 11 = 3-4 times. Armor 12 = 2-3 times. Armor 13 = 1-2 times. It's not guaranteed, but nothing is, and the numbers are pretty good, as far as orks are concerned.
Admittedly, you won't hurt Armor 14, but if you do the math, you'll find that rokkits don't either. Rokkits have a 1 in 6 chance of damaging Armor 14, meaning you have to get 6 hits in order to get a vehicle damage result, and taking the unit's BS into consideration, that means it'll take 18 shots from a boy, 12 shots from a killa kan, and 9 shots from a twin linked rokkit launcha, just to get a single roll on the vehicle damage table.
That isn't even taking into account how likely you are to get a 'weapon destroyed' or 'vehicle immobilized result'. You only have a 1 in 3 chance of getting either of those results (open topped vehicles aside, and even then the odds are only 1 in 2). That means a normal boy with a rokkit would have to fire 54 rokkit shots, a killa kan would have to fire 36, and twin linked rokkit launchas would have to fire 27. That's more shots than most of these units fire the entire game.
Rokkits just aren't very good at taking down armor anymore. Instead of lootas, let's compare 10 normal boyz with rokkits (or tankbustas). 10 tankbustas fire 10 rokkit shots, getting 3-4 hits on average. I'll round up to 4, since I rounded up for the lootas. With 4 hits, they'll inflict 3 vehicle damage results against AR 10. Armor 11 = 2-3 times. Armor 12 = 2 times. Armor 13 = 1-2 times. Armor 14 = 0.66 times.
Rokkits hit Armor 10, 11 and 12 consistently less than lootas, and hit Armor 13 the same number of times. On average, they'd only hurt armor 14 every other turn they fired, which is far from amazing, and not nearly enough to make up for the loota's advantage against lighter armor.
There are other factors of course. The rokkits are assault and can inflict a penetrating hit against armor 13 (odds are they won't though). On the other hand, lootas have incredible range, don't have all the drawbacks of tankbustas, and you aren't limited to 3 per unit, as with regular boyz.
I think we have to learn to accept the fact that the only way we're penetrating Armor 13, and damaging Armor 14 at all, is with powerklaws and tankbusta bombs, during the assault. Rokkits are still good for causing instant death and wiping out marines, but for dealing with light armor, there isn't a better unit than the loota, and they're great against...everything, really. Infantry and monstrous creatures all fall to deffgun fire.
Or is there something I've forgotten? Does anyone else feel different, or see a flaw in the math (it's been a long week, so it's definitely possible)?
Honestly I only use rokkits to kill marines nowadays. Lootas are used to wreck any vehicle with AV under 13, and anything bigger is getting a Powerklaw in the vulnerable parts.
Rokkits have uses in Koptaz and Buggies to hit side and rear armor, but I'll go for Lootas first every time.
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I have stopped taking tankbustas, I now take 3 squads of 7-9 lootas instead. This gets me the weight of shots and 3 targets so I have a good chance of taking out 2-3 weaker vehicles each turn. The armour 14 beasties get hit with power klaws, I have even started taking meganobs as troops to get the extra killy klaws into the list. Has been working well for me so far and more often than not all of the lootas survive to the end of the game.
Last edited by NovaJohn; September 6th, 2008 at 06:45.
I wouldn't take rokkits at the moment - more expensive than they were and you only get one shot, so the chance of that hitting on that turn is very small (I'm notorious for rolling ones). Orks have one of the lowest BS in game, so I'd ALWAYS go for something that consistently fires out a high rate of shots per turn - big shootas. I'd even go for them on Deffkoptas - sneak 'em on the side and shoot up the rear armour of tanks. I've taken out 'Russes with a surgically applied big shoota to the rear armour...
I'm a longtime tankbusta fan, but with 5th edition I've been using a lot more lootas.
Tankbustas can wreck vehicles, and used to be great for causing instant death in marines, but with the new line of sight rules, it's now virtually impossible to keep them from seeing a vehicle if there is one on the field. This may not seem too bad at first, but the only way they can possibly be anywhere near as effective as a loota is if they can shoot at targets besides vehicles (especially when fighting against marines). To make matters work, lootas don't need transports, and for tankbusta's they're downright mandatory, both for keeping them alive, getting them near their target, and blocking their line of sight to vehicles during the turns you want to fire at something else.
Still, I love the tankbusta's fluff, so I'm going to try to figure out a better way to play them. At this point I'm considering:
9 tankbustas w/nob, bosspole  in a looted wagon w/rokkit, ram 
This puts them in the price range of lootas, and the looted wagon can hide behind terrain, drive straight through it, and drop off the tankbustas in a way so it blocks their line of sight to the rest of the board.
That seems to be the best way I can see. Any other thoughts?
Last edited by mynameisgrax; September 9th, 2008 at 21:58. Reason: forgot one thing
Kind of like using Rhinos as "walls" to protect SMs/CSMs from enemy shooting and/or assault and to steer Spawn towards the target you want them to attack? Sounds like a plan...
Grax... you said 10 lootas... ARE YOU MAD! HAVE ATLEAST 20!!!!
I prefer the good old big choppas against tanks to be honest. With 4 attacks each on a nob, its pretty good considering its an auto hit if the vehicle doesn't move, and you always hit rear armour, normally bieng 10.
40 Auto hits with 10 Nobz, and 4+ to penatrate 3 to glance. Can't go wrong with 20 penatrating hits can you? thats only about... 6 times wrecked/destroyed
Last edited by Orks for Stompin; September 9th, 2008 at 22:31.
Red ones goes faster - it's true :)Ork Freebooter Crusaders!3/0/1
@grax: totally agreed. I'd even say that lootas are overpowered.
Tankbustas have the horrible line of sight rule, and with 5th ed., it's unlikely they'll ever shoot at infantry. a Single land speeder 60" away and the whole unit will waste its shots
Lootas, on the other hand, have an awesome range of 48", and simply destroy anything up to and including AV12, and any non-MEQ infantry. Even MEQs and MCs will suffer under the sheer amount of shots.
For the biggest enemy tanks, PKs remain the best option.
However, don't forget kannon goodness if you have a few HS slots left open, a pretty common occurence now that our HQ, troops, and elite slots have so many good choices. At just over the price of 4 boyz (with 2 ammo runts), they're effectively a cheap and accurate missile launcher.
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