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Another simple question thread brought to you by me, the resident ork noob.
I have assessed some simple facts about each of the three types and will lay them out and want to see a nice discussion of what works and what doesn't as I want to build and buy a new fast attack wing for my army and want to get the best for my price.
- +4 cover save
- Nob w/power klaw combo
- Largest max squad size
- Cheaper than other options
- Take Wazdakka to count as troop choice
- Fairly expensive
- Smaller squads usually, so target priority takes effect
- Twin-linked big shoota
- Twin-linked rokkits
- Immune to S3 weapons
- Immune to morale issues
- Very weak armour AND open-topped
- No close combat facilites
- Speed, even faster than the others
- Twin-linked big shoota
- Hit and Run as well as Scouting rule
- 2 Wounds
- Big bomm and buzzsaw weapon upgrades
- Twin-linked rokkits for anti-tank rear hits
- Most expensive
- Maybe targeted easily and downed fast in combat
- Powerklaw nob option
- Largest mob size
- Die easily
So this is what I've come up with, so guys please give me a few more pointers the fast attack section and I'll edit my post to include anymore arguments for either side.
Last edited by omgitsduane; September 7th, 2008 at 02:11.
pros for warbikes, if u take wazzdakka, then they count as troops, which leaves just deffkopta, stormboyz and warbuggies to choose from.
pros for defkoptas, can replace big shoota with twin linked rokkits for anti armour, seing as they will easily get behind tanks
and i cant believe you left out stormboys
nob with powerklaw
jump infantry so that means orks, getting into combat faster than usual , oh how i pitty their oponent haha
12 points per model instead of 6
Last edited by Skagrot; September 6th, 2008 at 12:11.
Hive Fleet Penance - 3500 Points - 4/1/0
Waaaaaaagh Skagtrot (40k Orks) - In Progress
Dinhar Whitestar's Dragon Host (H.E) - 2000 Points
Perfect! this is exactly what I'm after! Thanks oni!
Why do people take awesome units, like buggies and killa kans, and then put big shootas on them?
Big shootas are fine for regular boyz, dreads and wagons, since you only have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting, but for units that either have twin linked weapons or a better ballistics skill, you need to give them a more effective weapon.
I'd never give a buggy anything besides rokkits, and I always give killa kans some kustom mega blastas. I know that seems slightly off topic, but I saw 'big shootas' listed as a pro for buggies, and I couldn't let that sit. ^_^
Seriously though, they're all good units. The real trick is using them effectively. Each of those units can be great, but all of them need to be taken in a specific way, to keep them cheap and effective.
My favorite of the three is definitely warbuggies, but only when given twin linked rokkits. They're cheap enough to be expendable, and it's a win/win situation in virtually every game. Either your opponent ignores them, allowing you to sneak up and get side/back armor, or they focus on them, and not your main army. They aren't tough, but they're cheap and effective. Just don't give them any upgrades, except perhaps wartrakks.
Deffkoptas are my second favorite, just for their ability to outflank. The fact they have to take leadership saves makes the buggies superior, but since you can outflank and shoot at back armor, they koptas are more than effective. The catch with deffkoptas is they get too expensive if you give them extras. Never give them big bombs (rarely does anything and costs an arm and a leg), and no buzzsaws (not an effective powerklaw, since they don't have the stats of a nob). In their case, I actually prefer the big shootas, since you can easily fire at back armor. Rokkits work too, but they can get expensive. Don't use kmbs. Don't assault either. No matter how you outfit them, deffkoptas will never be good in assault. Also, field them in units of either 5 or 1. A unit between 2-4 in size will run after one casualty, so it's not worth it.
Many people love bikes, but I'm honestly not impressed. You're basically paying 4 x the cost of a regular ork boy for a boy with bike movement and a twin linked big shoota, only with half range. They're overpriced for what they do, although I have to admit, they're pretty good at anti-armor if they have a powerklaw, and they can stay in the battle longer if they have a bosspole. I'd use 5-6 with a nob, powerklaw and bosspole. Supercharge up along the side of the field, and go after tanks.
You didn't mention the last fast attack choice, Stormboyz. Stormboyz are lighting fast, but die just as easily as normal boyz, and can't claim objectives. With 5th edition, it might just be better to use trukkboyz, or normal footsloggers, kept running. On the other hand, the stormboyz tie up opponents really quick, and many veteran players swear by them. It's very possible I just don't know how to use them effectively, so I can't say if they're good or bad. I wouldn't use any less than 17 in each group, and 20 is better, along with a nob, powerklaw and bosspole. Still, you have to compare them to the most similar unit, the kommando, which is cheaper, can use special weapons, and are just as good at tying up the enemy lines. All things considered, I think I'd prefer kommandos.
Dont forget trukks.
Trukks are in my opinion, the best. Carrying up to 10 boys, and one of them a nob with a powerklaw. just shock the enemy and hit em hard.
buggies are cheap!... unless they got changed??
and for under 50 points (old codex, at least) u get twin linked rokkits, or big shootas for taking down the big nasties (hive tyrants, tanks, etc)
Buggies are even cheaper. Their base cost is only 30 points, and giving them rokkits brings their cost to 35. They're a real bargain.
Stormboyz are a fantastic way to get lots of boyz stuck in without having to cut your numbers to rely on a Trukk. They are an ideal first wave unit, easily capable of assaulting turn 2 (turn 1 if the enemy gets too close, or when deploying Dawn of War style). 12+d6 movement, d6 run, then repeat next turn with a charge instead of running. Zagstruk only makes them better by allowing them to assault after deep striking. Plus, all those PK attacks at I4 is just 'urty.
Warbikes are tougher than normal boyz, speedier, come with more dakka (twin-linked dakka at that), have better armor, and always get cover saves. They are 4x the cost of a normal boy, but they are well worth it. A unit of 8-10 with a PK Nob is a nasty unit, equally capable of blowing units away by shooting or chopping them up in combat. They need to be careful with their targets however, as they typically have lower numbers, and have to hit more vulnerable targets like shooty units, units already engaged, or vehicles.
Buggies I don't have much experience with. On paper they are cheap, fast, and have a ton of options. Rokkits seem like a good option, and I'm a big fan of skorchas.
Deff Koptaz I've only started using and for their cost they are pretty useful. Rokkits are the way to go, pinging vehicle side and rear armor with their surprisingly accurate fire.
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The problem with stormboyz is the same problem all large ork squads have, only with the stormboyz it's more pronounced: they do everything too quickly.
Not only do they move well ahead of the rest of your force, but they often win combat in a single round, leaving them standing out in the open like sitting ducks during your opponent's shooting phase. Large ork hordes have the same problem. They get so many attacks that they have a great chance of killing their opponents off in one turn. This sounds good, but it actually isn't. You want to win in two turns, so you get to go right after the end of the assault phase. I call this the 'Genestealer' problem, where you have a great close combat unit that can't stand up to shooting.
Still, stormboyz can do great, but I wouldn't use them in a horde army. I'd use them in speed freaks. They'll almost certainly die, but they'll buy your trukks the time they need to race in and assault.
In a horde army, they'd reach the enemy's front lines long before the rest of the army, and the secret of any good assault is to have all your forces reach your opponent at the same time.
Thanks guys, this is exactly what I was after, and for the record the question wasn't posed entirely about my army, I wanted this thread to help anyone else out there that wants to get a new fast attack choice but isn't sure how or what to do it with.
Personally I run a random army, mega nobs, no trukk, 35 boys, kommandos, stormboys and burnas.
And I updated the list with new additions!