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Hey everyone. Last week I bought the AoBR box set, and traded the SM for more Orks, which is an excellent start for a new army. Prior to that, I already had a Tau Codex and a box of Fire Warriors (as well as the 2 Gun Drones). Now, I don't know if its just because I don't have many Tau, or another reason altogether, but I find Tau a little boring now. I mean, I've tried around 5 paint schemes, and none look right. I don't really like that they COMPLETELY relly on firepower, and are just slaughtered in CC.
I've been looking at different forums, GW sites etc, and Eldar seem pretty interesting. I'm wondering whether I should quit my Tau, keep my Orks, and also start an Eldar army (I also have 900pts of SM, but I've been meaning to sell those for a LONG time).
Ok so I'll go over what I like and dislike in both armies, and see if you guys can help me out. Ok Tau first;
I like the suit models (besides stealth) especially Broadsides just for looks. High strength weapons are pretty good, but Tau shooting is a little overrated.
Kroot look sweet, but don't fit in with the rest of the tau models what so ever, the hounds even look like they belong in Fantasy.
I don't like that the suits look a bit like gundam, its a cool show but I don't want 40K things to be based off shows
Close combat, mega problem there....
Ok Eldar, I'm gonna need a bit of help from you guys here as I'm not too sure what they excel at, but I do know that each squad is a specalist force and shouldn't be used for much other then what there meant for.
Great looking models.
Good firepower, and pretty accurate with mostly alot of shots.
Also has some great CC squads (I hear banshees own).
Guardians seem completely neglected, don't really like theres a type of squad thats useless...
Do you think there girly? Just coz they have alot of... Finess
Well yeah. Again, I only have 12 Fire Warriors so its not a problem to sell them and the codex.
Btw, I am posting this in both the Eldar and Tau boards so that its not all just one sided (of coursed most Eldar players will say go to Eldar, and vise versa).
Thanks very much everyone, I hope you can help
Well I don't know how helpful I can be since I disagree with alot of your points...
I love the Fire Warrior and the stealth suit models, they are some of my favorite in all of 40k. Also, I pretty much hate all Eldar models except the Wraithguard and jetbikes.
My take on Eldar is that they would be a pretty fun army to play, but that they're very complex. Their small arms fire is lacking though they have good medium to heavy weapons support. Like the Tau they are not a long range army, but unlike the medium range Tau, the Eldar ranged weaponry is very short ranged. I consider the Eldar to be primarily assault based. Get within 12", shoot, assault. I have never been impressed with Guardians, warp spiders and swooping hawks, but banshees and striking scorpions have always seemed very dangerous to me.
You are right that the Tau are pretty much a shooting only army, particularly if you don't like Kroot. Personally, I love Kroot and fluff-wise I think they fit in very well with the Tau army. They fill in the gaps by being great in forests and being one of the best close combat units on a point for point basis. Compared to another great CC troop, the Tyranid Hormagaunts, the Kroot hounds cost less than half the points for a comparable unit (6 points vs. 14 points for the upgraded hormie) and the only thing the hound can't match is the hormagaunt's speed. That's not needed however because of the way Kroot are used, not as an assault unit but as a counter-assault unit.
The Tau and Eldar both are an extremely mobile force, but the similarities pretty much end there. The Eldar want to get in close and shoot to support the charging units while the Tau want to remain elusive and zip around the battlefield taking opportunities and frustrating their opponents. The Eldar overpower enemy units while the Tau whittle them down slowly, or quickly through massed surgical strikes.
But, that's just my take on it. I play Tau but have only ever played against Eldar. Both are strong armies, but they're very different.
-Thread Killer Bryan
Tyranid Hive Fleet Typhoeus
T'au Empire, Bork'an Sept
This is very true. One of the worst parts of my playing Tau was that, whenever close combat happened, all I could do was sit down and wait for my opponent to stop rolling dice. My loss was (usually) predestined and I hated waiting the couple minutes to resolve the inevitable. By contrast, my Imperial Guard die just as easily but have flamers, Rough riders, Ogryn, and other units with which to fight back; plus, they're cheap enough I can lose a few units. Tau are much less forgiving about attrition.I don't really like that they COMPLETELY rely on firepower, and are just slaughtered in CC.
Unless your heart is set on Tau (and you have at least one other 40k army) then do Eldar. Writing off close combat for your first army is a bad move and a hard handicap, and while Kroot are cheap they can't compete with most armies' CC specialists.
Eldar can do most anything any other army can do, and probably better. Close combat nutjobs, powerful gunlines, mechanized lists, special weapon spam, Monstrous Creature lists, even horde lists for the more experimental player are all competitive builds. It's very hard to go wrong with Eldar if you like the models and fluff.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
The Eldar are such a versatile list and I would never hesitate to borrow a friend's army just to play them from time to time.
However, as I said, I would never buy an Eldar army because I do not like the models, but that is just me and my personal taste.
Intrepid and Leafwalker gave very good advice for you. Even though I love Tau I agree that it sounds like they may not be the right army for you. Considering how expensive it is to buy an entire army and how much time it takes to assemble and paint, you definitely want to be sure of what you are doing before going forward.
-Thread Killer Bryan
Tyranid Hive Fleet Typhoeus
T'au Empire, Bork'an Sept
I used to play Eldar a lot (and still have a large Eldar Army) but I consider Tau to be a better Army overall with greater flexibility and punch, albeit slightly slower and slightly less manouverable.
my friend. my 12 man of kroot squad wreck close combat terminators with lightning claws.and while Kroot are cheap they can't compete with most armies' CC specialists.
when you compare the point cost, the stats, the flexibility of kroot. these guys are your best friend. i mean. i may only have 12 kroot right now but i plan on expanding up to at least 30-40 kroot models and that's not including the I 6 hounds i plan on buying as well..
that is a comparison between a 90 point 12 man squad of kroot. to 255 point 5 assault terminators with lightning claws. and who says they can't compete.
In my last game my carbine firewariors killed a termie squad. First shooting with a aid from markerlight hits and then kill the last 2 in CC. If u got more men why not to take the risk and it worked.
For me i like TAU the most because of the fact that the army build is straight forward. U gor 3 hq , 2 elites , 2 troops , 4 fast attack , and 4 heavy. U buy a commander some crisis and stealth , firewariors with fishes , some kroot and as backup hammerheads and u are set. U can give this characters different builds and some cool extra's like markerdrones on stealth its all up to you. My brother got a eldar army and he got plenty more models because they all have their task and strenght but also their weakness. I have always the same models but with other weapons etc
What can do a stealth not ??? They eat everything with their assault 3 weapons.
But its all to you , but my tau likes the smell of dead eldar bodies in the morning.
Tau is a great army and with Kroot and Hounds they certainly do not suffer in the CC stakes like they used to. I have destroyed whole 9 man Marine units with power weapon equipped characters in one turn many times, Eldar, DE you name it. Kroot with Hounds only suffer against high INT (6 or over) or against units with special rules for charging (going first automatically etc).
Tau are certainly one of the best shooting armies out there but you cannot win games by simply shooting at anything and everything; the key to winning with Tau is target prioritisation, selection and deciding which unit to use against targets. You also quickly need to realise that while Tau are a good mid range/long range shooting army they are not a good static shooting army, mobility is everything if you want to be successful with Tau. Move and shoot is the credo of the Tau general.
Tau is definitely a cerebral army that will punish any player who simply plays games without any thought to tactics (the old MEQ blunder, shoot and hope technique has no place here). Tactics are everything with this army, the intelligent use of marker lights, infiltrating units, deployment, flanking and the use of tactics such as refused flank are all needed to get the best out of the army.
Play Marines and you can make a lot of mistakes and get away with it, due to good toughness and saves. Play Eldar and you can make mistakes due to the ability to give the army the ability to excel in all phases of the turn, Tyranids and Orks have the numbers to soak up mistakes and the speed to avoid them (Orks in transports obviously). Tau players do not have this luxury, screw up once or twice and the game is often over.
This however is not a weakness or a negative aspect; on the contrary it is what makes the list the most rewarding to paly (maybe creating a good Grey Knights list is more satisfying), the fact that to win consistently means you have to be a good player is what makes the list so rewarding to play.
If you dedicate the time to mastering the Tau I guarantee you that anyone who plays you a few times will not take Tau for granted and they will know that they are in for a tough game.
If you are not prepared to invest time into list refining and playing to gain the experience needed to succeed with Tau then the list is not for you. If you cannot live with losses until you master the tactics needed to succeed then Tau are not for you. If you can however exercise patience and learn from mistakes then Tau will reward you with a more demanding, tactical and fulfilling game of 40K.
I will leave the extolling of Eldar to the players who know the lists as well as I know Tau.
Last edited by Rikimaru; September 19th, 2008 at 11:50.
Indeed, Tau have a steep learning curve compared to other armies and I lost fairly consistently for quite some time, however, I've learned more of squad placement and tactics using Tau than I ever would have with another army.
You seem to be hindering yourself with your preferences. You're taking models because they "look cool" and not taking some because they don't, and it's hurting your abilities. Kroot are indeed great, Tau units used in proper coordination will perform amazingly well, and if you're familiar enough with your army you'll not suffer many casualties.
The downfall with any new army is that you're infatuated with the pros, and so you fail to see the cons until you're neck deep in models. I played against Eldar in the 'Ard Boyz tournament, and let me tell you, he suffered greatly at the hands of my units, despite being a smart player. Eldar have plenty of special abilities, are good at both close combat and ranged combat, and are effective in a large variety of roles allowing you a lot of versatility as a player. However,
Eldar are fragile, and expensive.
I was destroying entire squads with a 12-strong rapid-firing Fire Warrior squad, submunitions with support were also destroying squad after squad, and between missile pods, railguns and seeker missiles my opponent's tanks were disabled, if not destroyed, for the majority of the game.
This is just general advice, and can be applied to any army you may be considering. When you look at an army, and the corresponding codex, force yourself to look past the appearance and strong points of the army and ask yourself: what are the weaknesses?
Necrons are very tough and effective, however, they're also very expensive per model and not the best in close combat.
Eldar are fast and mean, but fragile.
Space Marines are good at everything, but when compared to other races it's hard for them to be as good (also, low model count similar to Necrons).
Orks are numerous and able-bodied in close combat, but will fall in swathes to mass firepower and poor AP weaponry.
And so forth. Every army is great, it's true. They're all good at killing stuff, otherwise we'd see only one army being used because it was more effective than the others. You have to get past your infatuation with the strengths of an army and try to think of the aspect that will drive you mad when it's used against you (for example, Tau's poor CC ability). You've got to pick the drawback that bothers you the least, and go with that army.
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.