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After the 'ard boyz tournament, I've come to realize that the 'dawn of war' setup has really changed the game. Having a great army suddenly isn't enough anymore, not when you might have to enter everything from off the board edge, besides two troops and an HQ, which can start up to halfway across the board.
For horde armies, this means starting two units of footsloggers and a KFF halfway across the board. This sounds great, but it leaves every other unit of footsloggers, and all the support units, a long way behind you. You could just start them off all from the board edge on the first turn, but you'll be at least 1 round behind in movement if you do so.
Having a highly mobile force works better, but if you go first, you won't know where your opponent is, and if you go second, your opponent will have first shot at shooting at you without night fighting getting in the way. Either situation can be devastating to trukk lists.
This says nothing of lootas, who have to spend an entire turn or two walking into a good position, or killa kans and deff dreads, who have to march all the way across the field, possibly not reaching the enemy lines before turn 4.
To make matters worse, I've had opponents who, after winning the first roll at the start of the game, decide that 'I' should go first, and then don't start with anything out on the field. They don't even roll to try and steal first turn. This forces me to move everything out onto the board completely blind, while simultaneously robbing me of anything to shoot during the first turn. From experience, all I can do is spread my forces out, and then they deploy everything in a single corner, effectively cutting my army in half for most of the game.
Does anyone have any good strategies for dealing with this scenario? It's been a nightmare for my horde armies and speed freaks alike. For all practical purposes, it's been like playing with one less turn per game. So far, Nob bikers have been the only units that have really stood up well to this situation.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; September 18th, 2008 at 20:58. Reason: forgot one thing
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
sounds like a mixed force is needed to me. 2 big squads with the troops, and the rest being trukkers/storm boyz/bikers. None of the orks HS really brings a real long distance unit into play, so i'd advoid marching anything down the line(lootas, most HS choices)
If you really need something to deal with Armor, a Rokkit battle Wagon filled with tank bustas might be your best bet. Another idea is Infiltrators but being orks we only one 1 of those, Snikrot might prove useful in this type of game though.
That being said all this is theory, as i've yet to play a Dawn of War Setup, i'll try to get someone to play with me this saterday and update accordingly. Grax, what size army do you normally play on so i can plan my army up to it.
The worst thing I've had done is the enemy deploying first and plopping down a unit of expendable troops at the midline, spread as far as possible, in order to push ==Me== back as far as possible. 6" of deployment zone is not pretty.
DoW makes speedy units mandatory, either Trukks, BWs, Bikes, Stormboyz, or something like that. On the upside, your Trukks can charge turn 1 if you enemy deploys anything, or you can plop down 60 boyz and a KFF to begin the advance. Everything either speeds on the board, outflanks, or shoots so nothing is really lost.
It has its potential abuses, but it's got nothing on the stupidity of Escalation.
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com
I have played 3 or 4 DOW setups so far and not run into too many problems, I guess it also depends on the mission. If you take 1-2 large squads of shoota boys then you can take whatever they bring in when they do. Trukks first turn would be ok as no heavy weapons will be firing at them on their turn either.
You could always be nasty in return! Take 2 trukks + bike warboss and park them right in the front of their deployment edge, you should have the speed to make it and since they can't come in within 1" of an enemy model they will have to deploy where you want them to, either dead center or right/left corner, at least you know where when you do that. Then you bring in your lootas/SAGs/Pie plates etc with plenty of range to have few scattering issues when they do show up.
Last edited by NovaJohn; September 19th, 2008 at 05:55.
W/D/L Ork Tide 22/1/14
Click here to feed me some squigs
don't forget a Big Mek makes a Dred count as a troop
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
The only thing I can think of is Mega Nobz as troops. Your opponent just gave you the extra turn you need to plop them boyz on the far side objective of your choice.
The other thing is choosing units you would plan to keep in reserve anyway - like snikrot commandoes.
That deployment really makes army building interesting knowing that something really effective most of the time gets totally neutered 1/3 of deployments (Lootas, i'm lookin' at you!)
I personally think DoW is a brilliant way to force players to come up with flexible armies, just like kill pts is pretty much the opposite of objective taking.
A balanced army will work best in those circumstances (and that's where having some heavy weapons in a slugga boyz squad can really help ;-) )
The placing of your 3 units that are on the table is quite essential. By placing them on a side, you effectively control a large part of the board. Ideally, if they stay in defensive positions, you can then have fast units come up the other way.
Things also really depend on your opponent's army. If he has a CC army, he will probably try to go first. Otherwise, you can push back his deployment zone and force his own footsloggers to come from the table edge. A shooty army will also suffer, as units will spend 1-2 turns getting into position. That's where your troops deployed at the beginning can really shine, as you can launch some early assaults.
Trukks and other fast vehicles shine, as well as infiltrators/scouts that can arrive from the side and slam right into an unprepared flank.
Overall, DoW favors units very different from those that usually perform well. Deffkoptas and kommandos become very useful, for example.
That's why I love it so much, as it totally screws up theoryhammer
"Politics is the womb in which war develops"
Very good points everyone!
I guess I have to get used to the setup, but regardless, I'm having trouble with one particular enemy strategy, which I've mentioned before:
If they win the roll to choose who goes first, they choose to go second, deploy nothing, forgo the roll to steal first turn, and force me to deploy my army and play my first turn without knowing where any of their units are going to be. With speed freaks I can just huddle towards the middle, so it isn't that much of a problem, but with hordes I have to either spread out or concentrate on one side, as there isn't enough room to stay solely in the middle.
If I spread out, they deploy into a corner. If I lean towards a direction, they deploy out in the opposite direction. In smaller games it isn't as much a problem, but at the 'ard boyz it proved crippling during the final match, since my army was far too large to keep solely in the middle.
I do appreciate the fact that the new rules encourage players to play more balanced, but it's not really the mission itself, but this specific abuse that's bothering me. It's bad enough deploying blind, but having to play the first turn completely blind can be crippling. Half my units barely saw any action at all until the final turn.
Hmm...the thought of 30 grotts or boyz strung out lengthwise seems fun, and would also help counter any early assaults. I'll have to experiment with it a bit.
I forgot to mention, I normally play in the 1500-2000 point range. I'm not looking for help with any specific list right now, I just wanted to know how people where dealing with this particular mission.
Thanks for the help everyone!
Last edited by mynameisgrax; September 19th, 2008 at 16:22. Reason: forgot one thing
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
I hate Dawn of War. It turns a game of 40K into a total crapshoot. If one side gets a few more units on in a better position they can usually effortlessly mangle the opposition. Any slower units might as well be chucked away as there is no chance they will see any action. Fast, flexible units, especially skimmer gunships and bikes, totally dominate even more than they do already.
I much prefer mass deployment at close ranges for all armies. This is the method that places the biggest premium on a well-structured force. Fast armies need to be elusive and redeploy, while slower armies are actually in a position to do something with their units.
I'd use the max choice of boyz in a squad to my advantage, 60 boyz on the field, and a KFF or SAG would be totally ownage for the first turn.
Red ones goes faster - it's true :)Ork Freebooter Crusaders!3/0/1