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I just wanted to know what people liked becauase i wanted to know what to get.
So whats your pick Ravener or Gargoyle?
RAVENERS all the way nuff sayed
What's your goal? Also (unfortunately), what's your monetary limit? (rhetorical question) Gargoyles are very good in squads of 30. Under that, not so much. They are a pain to assemble and base, and cost lots of $$$.
Raveners are good in squads of 6. They usually work as a clean-up squad; generally, they only work well in high-point games with lots of cover. They cost lots of points and die quickly.
SO: If you are willing to commit, I'd say go for Gargoyles.
A word of warning for both units: prepare yourself for the disappointment of getting a ton of awesome fast attack models on the board and taking them off the board by turn 2.
It depent on which army you fight with I think if you fight with marine or choas marine I think Raveners is better >.<
Ive never found the 30 garg squad to be as effective as a pair of 3 man ravener squads,
If you deep strike the rav's then the possibilitys are endless, personaly i use them to coral enemy units into my fex's line of fire or into a a nice pack of genies.
And as a side note if your useing raveners all in or not at all, meaning take the rending claws and talons + the dev, then enjoy the mayham they cause!!
Just to play devils advocate if your realy stuck on gargs they make awsome hit and run units but unfortunatly they draw lots of attention, if used correctly you can pick off smaller squads of MEQ units and make things like gaurd and tau fire warriors shake in their boots!
Hope this helps.
Hive fleet Xiranos
Legion of the Maleficorum
I think Gargoyles are the best unit in the codex, and probably the game. The reason they are hardly ever used is that they are so expensive. However, using termagaunts and making some wings for them out of plastic from blisters gives you very cheap gargars.
For your question:
3 Raveners are a solid little unit. They need rending claws which has been nerfed slightly but still they are fast and strong. A unit of three can cause some impressive damage but are easily disposed of if left in line of sight. Both units can deep strike.
12 Gargoyles are better because for a couple more points than 3 rending ravs you get more wounds. You get a shooting attack for free. Fleshborers may not be great weapons but firing 12 of them before an assault is better than not firing at all! You get Bio plasma. Striking at I8 will ensure you strike first in almost every assault and the bio plasma is quite a nasty attack. Then you get your normal attacks which are about the same as a hormagaunt. They need alot of fire to be wiped out completely. Both units can deep strike.
So yeah, gargoyles are better in every way. I run units of 16-20 and they never fail to make back their points.
And I just voted gargoyles, for all of the reasons MaceWind just explained.
Personally, I prefer raveners for small games, fielding them in separate units, as spread as possible, so that my opponent has to decide whether to waste all the shooting of a whole unit shooting at them or to forget them and pay the price when they hit his lines.
Raveners are fast enough that I don't deepstrike them (they're simply too vulnerable if they sit there in the open for a whole turn after deepstriking) and they perform very well. However, for larger games I prefer large broods of gargoyles.
They perform very well and are far superior to hormagaunts for only a few points more. They also are far more resilient than raveners, since they have so many more wounds. So if you have the models, and the game is large enough to accomodate enough gargoyles, go for them!
With the cjoice of raveners and gargoyles I'm really sad I don't have more fast attack choices
If you are not using a terrible amount of big critters I think raveners work better and better as you size up the game and for the really small games. for the medium sized games I think I'd go for gargoyles but hey why not use both. Gargoyles to draw fire and lock the enemy in cc and then you bring ou the raveners to support.
With nids almost nothing is a one unit show you should allways gang up. termagents backed by gargs or raveners or zilla or anything else in the dex is a whole world nastier than just the guants and the same goes for everything else. if something is in cc get moar into that cc.
A large squad of gargoyls is a misplaced expenditure in the new 5th edition rules. In large part, so is a large squad of raveners. I can't believe someone said raveners were best in squads of 6. The advantage to Ravs is that Tyranid Fast Attack slots are either Gargs or Ravs, so you often have at least 2 slots available, and most people aren't going to look at a giant Tyranid swarm and waste excessive firepower on 1 or 2 little 2 wound close combat only critters, at least not early on. If you start fielding them in squads of 6, you're asking for them to get shot to pieces after all, b/c suddenly at 240 points that's one of the more expensive units in a Tyranid army (unless you are a fool in how you build your units).
Unles you roll annihilation, 3 small squads of a pair of raveners each are still very valuable ... they're hard to kill all at once, since they present three different targets and your army should be well composed enough that your opponent has trouble targetting the raveners only.
They work very well as a quick punch "counter" unit to enemy CC specialists, if you are running a shotty 'Nid army.
Last edited by MVBrandt; September 23rd, 2008 at 13:34.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
MVBrandt: I'd be interested to hear why you think Gargoyles aren't worth taking in 5th. So long as they are kept out of double-tap and flamer range, and if you can get them into cover, they are still a great unit (for bugs). Don't underestimate bio-plasma, and lots of fleshborer shots--with a better chance at getting in range--are useful.
To back up what I said already: The OP asked which he should take, not whether he should take them at all. If the question was the latter, I would say none. Neither unit fits really competitive lists, but both (especially Gargoyles, I would argue) have potential in fun/semi-competitive armies.
"Unless you roll annihilation" is too big of an 'if', especially in tournaments where it will be played.