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I think I may be missing a key ingredient to the superboat phenomenon. Are they so excellent because you are getting 2 DL for around 100pts? Or is it amazing because you can dump the troops when necessary, and still end up with 1DL?
For the same amount of points, I can field a ravager that has 3 DLs, and better armor.
In fact, my wych cult army consists of 3 ravagers as heavy support, with a good amount of disintigrators mixed in.. they do an amazing job of support, putting 9 DLs on a target or 9 S7 Blast hits.
What am I missing here?
Also.. I'm having a lot of problems with MEQ armies. Any help? Mainly blood angels and plague marines giving me troubles with their higher T and saves
my wych's, tooled up, can barely dent the surface as S3 just isnt enough. However I need the wych's weapons and invuln save to be able to stand toe to toe or to tarpit them.
This is where my ravagers are doing the msot work in helping me find victory.
Anyways.. hoping to get a few answers
Last edited by sureshot; September 24th, 2008 at 22:45.
You shouldnt think that it is one or the other. They complement each other in a fast-moving raider force. As for as the gunboat is concerned, the benefit comes from having a mobile gun platform. You get: DL or Dis on raider, two splinter cannons, two blasters, six splinter rifles, and even a horrorfex if you want. As for the Ravagers, they fill a different role. They are your heavy suppot remember and should be doing just that: blasting the hell out of targets softening them up for the ground troops. Anyway, just my two cents.
(WH40K) Dark Eldar - (12,000pts) Sisters of Battle - (5000pts) Dark Angels -(3500pts) (WHFB) Dark Elves - (10,000pts) Beastmen - (5000pts) Empire - (3000pts) Wood Elves - (1500pts)
The superboat idea has been birthed from 5thEd because you can transport non-dedicated squads. As such, you field a empty raider and a 10 warrior squad with 2splinter cannons, 2blasters (or however you wish to do it) anywhere within 8in. On your movement phase you put this squad into the raider and then move the raider (preferably 6in so that the warriors can still shoot).. as Kabb said it "mobile gun platform".
For 215pts (forgive me if I am wrong, just calculated it quickly in my head) you get a transport, 2 dark lances, 2 splinter cannons, 2 blasters, and 15troop (you can also throw in a syb+agon if you wanted).
JUst reading the last post can't raiders only carry 10 or have i mis read it. SOrry im just a noob DE player.
LOL no worries
Raider w/ 5 warriors + dark lance
10 Warriors w/ 2 SC, 2 Blasters
Thanks for the replies guys.
I played 2 games last night on V40k just to test.
My interpretation of the codex may be different than some of yours though. For a warrior squad it says:
"Up to two models may be armed with a shredder for xx pts or a blaster at xx points"
"Up to two models may be armed with either a dark lance or a splinter cannon at +xx pts"
My interpretation of this is that a total of only 4 models may have upgraded weapons, 2 blasters and 2 DL, or whatever. This is still OK, and how I played last night. A gunboat that has 5 STR8 AP2 shots from 12" is pretty good for me. I attached night shield just to help with the assault, and my total cost was 190pts.
Since the blasters only have a range of 12" ( and the regular splinter cannon only 24" ) to take full advantage of this setup I went full out my first turn to get the 3+ cover save. Usually on the second round I'd be close enough for a drive by.
Two of these boats really do a good job at murdering an armies flank, tank busting, whatever.
If I knew my opponent was playing a horde army, I would have upgraded the raider to have a disintigrator and 2 splinter cannons instead of the blasters. THAT'd be some mayhem.
Your interpretation is right, just remember that the raider squad and warrior squad are two different troop choices all together. So for the warrior squad for troops can be upgraded and for the raider squad 2 troops can be upgraded (but only upgrade 1).
Yeah man, I'm good with that. I'm just trying to find a secret loophole in the 5ed rules. I'll report back soon.
How do you "play" your super gunboats?
I can't really say its a perfect tactic as I have found to be situational depending on the enemy. The option will always be there but sometimes the flow of battle interrupts my plans.
I will usually have 1 warrior squad that would (if opportunity arises) be an optional candidate for gunboating. 10 warriors (2 blasters and 2 cannons) with one of them a Sybarite with either xenospasm or an agoniser (xenospasm sybarite has poison blades). One is made to stay on the raider most of the time and the other is meant to be boosted into combat with the shoot first and assault second.
My latest tendencies have been to give the sybarite an agoniser and use them as a rapid response support unit. With the 2 cannons, 2 blasters and a pistol volley before charging in or they have the option to move 6" and fire everything.
Another piece of the puzzle that I discovered is helpful is the horrorfex on that raider. If my plan is to send this squad into assault then the horrorfex will be needed to pin the target. Pinning a target that is in cover helps take away the enemies benefit from being assaulted (or should I say keeps my warriors at initiative 5). If you running 6 warrior squads and the sybarite is the only model with a plasma grenade then you bet I will be pinning targets before assualts.
Horrorfexs also help those units that do not plasma as well such as Grotesques, Mandrakes, Jetbikes and even the talos. These raiders with horrorfexs are usually equiped with dark lances and in most instances if I am not using the lance to pop a tank I am moving a squad for assault - so skipping out of the lance shot against 10 firewarriors in cover for example will not be missed.
In my last game against a WH army that had a large allied IG force I was able to easily pin heavy weapon squads and let my 10 man warrior squads charge in knowing I get to attack first.
So ya, I am still going to get a 10 man warrior squad onto an empty raider but I am not going to say their sole purpose is to be a super gunboat - they will also get to assault with twice the firepower of a raider squad before a charge.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
Thanks for the reply and anecdotes.. and as you said, it's all situational. Technically can you ask what army your opponent is playing before you "submit" your army list? A horde army vs an army full of termies will certainly require adjustments, especially in regards to the use of DL vs Disintigrator , DL vs Splinter Cannon, etc.
I spent some time looking through the 5E rulebook and couldn't find anything regarding buying a transport alone.
Just because you didn't mention it, I'm assuming you are getting the raider for +55 in addition to a 5 man raider unit. You dump the 5 people and put the 10 man warriors on. If I'm wrong about that, then great, I don't have much use for a meager 5 man unit with one DL dumped all the back in my deploy area.
Are there any additional sources of rules for the DE, other than the FAQ and the Codex Update? Also was there a FAQ for the 5E rulebook? ( where is the special character: Lelith Hesperax? )
I'm just trying to figure out how to get as many high S/AP weapons onto one boat as possible
Last edited by sureshot; September 25th, 2008 at 16:38.