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Hi, I just recently bought the eldar codex, read through it a couple of times, played around with some sample army lists, and then decided on an almost pure close combat force.
My reason for this was simple; I fell in love with the banshees, and the storm guardians, the avatar, even the striking scorpions. The eldar shooting is without doubt potent, but I already own and play way to many “shooty” armies (IG and TAU specifically).
So I wanted a pure close combat army, many experienced eldar players out there must be shaking their heads at this, but it might just work?
My main opponents are marines (shocking!), and one in particular is very CC focused, as he plays black templar space marines…
And for this reason my main assault troops will be the banshees, mounted in wave serpents in squads of 6 (since GW only sells them in packs of 6 ) .
The squad will consist of 5 regular banshees and one exarch with the triskele and acrobatics power. My first lists had squads of 10, but then I realized that such a squad would most likely just destroy anything they assaulted.
And in 5th this is bad as we all know.
I will also have a walking Avatar, surrounded by at least two full squads of storm guardians (with a warlock, using the enhance power to boost their initiative stat). The avatar and guardians will simply move-run-move-run until they reach the enemy lines, and then tie up any and everything they can.
My reason for including the avatar is that he makes my little low morale storm guardians stay and fight until they die horribly .
I will also include one wraithlord, with one starcannon, and the wraithblade.
I think it will be easier to post my army list in the army list section, so I’m going to stick to asking a few questions instead.
As far as an eldar force that is almost pure CC goes, how do you think it will fare against different armies?
Will it simply be shot to hell before I can even get into CC? (even though we can move a sick distance with our transports)..
Against armies like IG, I can see our transports getting shot down in turn one or two, couple this with the fact that after you wipe a squad, you can’t consolidate into a new CC, meaning that banshees, scorpions and most other eldar units will be shot to pieces during the IG turn, same problem against the tau, and to a limited degree against most other armies.
I will enjoy playing the Tyranids however, one pure CC force against another.
The list will eventually grow into an apocalypse list, here I will use a tactic the marines often spring on my IG list, namely flank march.
So I will have very few units on table in the first rounds, and then swarm in with my banshee filled serpents.
Also my apocalypse list will deviate from my “pure” CC in that I intend to field at least 6 Prism tanks, if I ever get around to it I might even field as many as 12. (That is fielding one or two “sunstorm squadrons”).
I am a tank player at hearth, and my IG army includes no less than 7 basilisks, 6 Leman Russ battle tanks, 2 hellhounds, 3 sentinels, and one baneblade.
But, since this post kind of lacks purpose, my main questions would be:
Anyone with experience using a “pure” CC eldar force, share a bit, tell me the ups and downs of such a force.
Anyone else, please, shoot some advice my way, but keep in mind that the list is lacking ranged firepower on purpose
Thanks for reading this wall of text J
Banshees need to be used in squads of 10, 6 just don't have enough power to get the job done. Banshees are not going to get the job done against 'nids either. Here's the thing.
The eldar army is very specialized. If you love Banshees, great, field 'em. However, realize they're not "close combat" specialists, they're "anti-power armor" specialists and they're probably going to need a farseer with doom to accomplish overly much even in that department. (Farseers are your friend.) Btw, Banshee exarchs should have either power blades (if you're running with a farseer) or the executioner. Also, do not (ever) send eldar units, even Banshees, in alone and unsupported.
Don't ignore scorpions just because your friends use power armor, scorpions with their higher iniative, marine strength, and multiple attacks can win combat against marines pretty easilly and are more survivable than Banshees. In addition, thanks to their ability to infiltrate / out flank they don't need a transport. When assaulting GEQ with scorpions always try and get 2 units, your volume of attacks can easilly overwhelm one unit leaving you sitting vulnerable, your ideal kill is 2 rounds, yours and your opponents.
One of the greatest strengths of the eldar is speed. Your proposed list is totally missing out on that. Warp Spiders are amazingly good against pretty much anything and can serve as an asault unit against IG and Tau, to help tie up units that might otherwise shoot your banshees / scorpions to pieces.
On the close combat line, look at Wraithlords. They're great in CC and can carry anti-tank weaponry (something our CC units miss out on). You do not need to equip them with wraith swords or star cannons, you need anti-tank.
Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.
If you are wanting a close combat army you might want to have a lot of transports or put some shining spears in to have a good fast close combat threat. The little bit of shooting from the transports should be used to take out tanks as this will be the main problem a close combat army will have. The wraithlords should have something to do on their way up as well, so you might want to give them 2 guns cuz one reroll just doesn't do much. I'd say go for having your combat army but don't forget about necessary things like sufficient anti tank.
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About Anti-Tank - if you have a Falcon with 6 Fire Dragons, you do not need much more, maybe simply posibilities (Spears on Seers, Wraithlord with Lances, etc.).
Dire, Banshees aren't even able to wound TMC's reliably unless there is an executioner in the squad.
Neither Banshees or Scorpions should be in combat with TMC's anyways, thats why we have shining spears. I could see a list like this being possible but it would be a lot of points. Also you cannot avoid using some kind of shooting element for a troop since you need a more resilient choice than just storm guardians. (unless you presume that your opponent will just leave them be due to all the other threats) Also if you want to be strictly cc oriented, you will miss out on, one of my favorite sections of the army list, heavy support. A theorhetical list could comprise of:
the avatar or potentially a bike autarch with the spears
eldrad or a farseer with doom and fortune
1x squad or shining spears
2x squads of banshees or scorps
1x squad of scorpions or banshees
4x squads of storm guardians (getting this many storm guardians would be expennnnsiiiiive without conversion)
and would cost about 1750 pts (rough guestimate).
I'm not sure how a list like that would fare, but it would be as cc oriented as the eldar army could get.
Last edited by Amishcellphone; October 4th, 2008 at 18:40.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left" Bertrand Russell
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.
Amish the average TMC toughness is 6. Banshees can hurt that.
Anyway, I would recommend taking 10 man squads (as has been said), and give harlies a try. Theyre like a mix of scorpions and banshees But don't need a transport. Also, a farseer with fortune and doom could be very nice in a combat army.
In addition, wave serpents are a must, get vectored engines too on your assault squads. As for anti tank, look into a wraithlord with Brightlance and an EML.
As to "fire dragons in a falcon" being all you need for anti-tank, right. . .unless of course your opponent is smart enough or capable enough to shoot said falcon down. Or if perhaps they have a couple tanks. Or if they're smart enough to not let your fire dragons get more than one shot.
Now you mention a wraithlord with a brightlance seems that was exactly what I suggested, funny you didn't quote that.
Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.
@Valthonis - You seem to have made your army only balanced for Anihilation games (and even that is in question). Storm guardians are not gonna do a good job of holding objectives and they are the only troops you have. You may prefer the Warlock to give them Conceal instead of Enhance as the little guys are only wearing Bacofoil for armour.
I am just here to throw my two cents in about the banshees and doom disagreement between Shadowcat and Dire. Now, I am not sure if it is because of the dice on both side, but whenever I have used banshees against orks, nids, or IG, and the squad I am attack is doomed, Normally the banshees do a heavy number on them. Even more so against the nids and the IG because their T matches our S, so doom is very effective. Now, like I said, might have just been the dice. But Banshees work wonders on a lot for me. Scorpions are still amazing though xD
Eldar Craftworld Igsolus-Toc (reset for 5th)
0 / 0 / 0 3500+
Tyranids Hive Fleet Oceanus (reset for 5th)
0 / 0 / 0 WIP around 1600 points
Banshees, with doom, can do a lot of damage to orks, but realize that if orks trade 2 models for every banshee they kill they're still winning the trade and also remember that you're involving your hq where as you are not giving your opponent the benefit of using his HQ. With 'nids, depending on the type of gaunt the trade ratio is closer to 1.5 to 1 but their fearlessness will tie the banshees long enough for them to bring in support. Scorpions, when fighting doomed 'nids will kill .13 less on the charge than banshees. Every round there after they will kill roughly 3-4 more than the banshees (assuming no casualties against either squad and no exarchs.) They will also loose fewer members in the fight thanks to their improved armor saves.
Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.