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These gents havn't been touched since they were glued together when the Tau arrived the first time around. I've used the XV8 guide to help catagorise them for your ease:
1) Shas'el Commander (Stormsurge varient OR Screw you! I'm Lascannon proof!)
Burstcannon, Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator, Hard-wired Drone Controller w x2 Shield Drones
The basic idea behind this fellow is for him to target armour or m/creatures and when he runs out of those targets he can gun down infantry. The generator and drones are because I like my commander characters (regardless of the army) and want to keep him alive!
2) XV8 Team (Hey a Fire Knife team.....I never even knew )
Shas'ui Team Leader - Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi Tracker, hard wired drone controller w x1 Shield Drone
1 Shas'ui - M/Pod, Plasma Rilfe, Multi tracker
1 Shas'ui - Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator
These guys are my MEQ killers with a Fusion Blaster thrown in to take out armour. The Shield Gen is in the squad just in case the drone dies. After all someone needs to soak those lascannon shots....
3) XV8 Team (ummm no funky name for these guys, I like to think of them as Fiery Death!)
Shas'ui Team Leader - Twin-linked Burst Cannons, Shield Generator, hard wired drone controller w x1 Shield Drone
1 Shas'ui - Burst Cannon, Flamer, Multi tracker
1 Shas'ui - Fusion Blaster, Flamer, Shield Generator
These guys are my deep-striking Imperial Guard killers, failing that they can murder whole units of Tyranids and Orks alike. The Fusion Blaster is in the unit on the off chance they land near a tank when they DS. Again, I've taken a lot of shield protection as being so close to the enemy they have to soak a lot of fire power.
So that's my XV8 units. Do people think these are decent builds?
My bits box has yeilded another four suits and I'm wondering what roll they could fill that I havn't already covered?
what about some deathrains (XV8 with twin linked missile pods and a targeting array ) for long range support and popping transports and other light vehicles.
al gue ar cha
The Fire Knife TA Shas'El (as above but with MP instead of Fusion) is even better if you take into consideration cove saves though the Helios is a very good monstrous creature, vehicle etc killer.
I would definitely drop the shield gen as well and I am not overly smitten with shield Drones either. Ok SD's may well offer a bit of protection (not much) but they are expensive and with the new rules a couple of Gun Drones are just as good. OK SD's may get a save against Lascannons etc but you get some additional fire power from the Drones and with the new rules you have to apply wounds to the El anyway because it is classed as a different model type. I would do what I do and just use the two Drones from a Devilfish to offer some protection for the El, you can join the Drone unit (it is a unit so can be joined by an independent character) or just have them placed in between the El and the opponents forces to provide a 4+ cover save.
I would do as face said and take a unit of Deathrains configured like this
1 X XV8 team leader TL MP with TA and HW target lock
2 X XV8's with TL MP and TA.
This gives you a unit that can stay at range and destroy pretty much anything it targets at near 100% accuracy and leave the infantry killing to units that are good at it.
Hope that helped somewhat.:
Thanks for all feedback rikimaru!
Iím not sure why youíre so against Flamers and Burst Cannons. I understand the shorter range places the XV8 in danger but in my opinion battle suits are at their most dangerous to the enemy at the 18 to 12Ē range.
Plasma is at its most effective at rapid fire range, which is well inside BC range and perfect range for Flamers and Fusion.
Suits with x3 Flamers and BCís are going to kill a lot more gaunts, orks and guards then a Deathrain/Fire Knife unit.
Iíll admit they have a narrow roll to fill but if they are supported by Kroot and with cover fire from FW then they can maul the flank of a swarm armies easily.
If you ignore DS for a moment (which was a game winner against a guard army two weekends ago btw) then you still have a unit that can be in BC range in a single round and then flaming swarms in turn two.
Remember that now a template just has to touch a base in 5th to hit so the number of automatic hits youíd get is hideous in comparison to the hits from DR and FK builds.
Concerning the other hard points on the Fiery Death Team:
Iím tempted to dump the shield generator from the Flamer/Fusion Suit and give him a Target Lock to allow him to Fusion any nearby tanks while the rest of the unit takes care of any nearby infantry.
As for the Hard-wired shield drone. Well I take your point about using a Gun Drone as a buffer rather then a Shield Drone but when a Gun Drone is hit by a Lascannon then itís dead. When a Shield drone is hit by a Lascannon youíve got a 50% chance of the shot bouncing.
I take you point concerning my Shasíel Commander. I think Iíll strip weaponry and turn him into a Fire Knife with a MP instead of Fusion and a ML. However Iím not willing to strip away all his protection (Iíve already stripped him of his Shield Generator) so at least one of the Shield Drones will stay. J
Remeber with cover saves (and why hasn't he got one in the cheese spawning pool that is 5th?) they are pretty much the same as the Invulnerable. He'd be just as well off with some gun drones (or even better off with a frisbee mob from the FA slot, which can break off and stall something.).
You don't take BC's on suits because its just to expensive for a gun that is doing what your troops choices do (they do it better), and the stealth suit does ( if you want horde munchers its these ninja's you should be talking to, they're a steal for their points, XV8's with BC's aren't. Also they detract from your ability to field plasma and missiles)
Yes your ~179pts unit will kill more GEQ than a unit of deathrains. But why in an ethereals floaty chair are you shooting at GEQ's with your dedicated anti-light vehicle/monster suit?
*Deathrain team concentrate fire on the gue'la's fire support base...'Sir? They're flanking the XV88's with light walkers and rushing with their tanks, we can draw Lin'.......I said shoot those 10 men dammit! The broadsides can shoot their railguns at the light vehicles....*
I was going to type more, but you get the picture i hope, why make a tiny dent in a guardsman squad (in a futile attempt to silence the heavy weapon, he's hardly going to be nice and take it off first), when you could mess up a dreadnought or warwalker team?
Flamers are becoming more popular in 5thed, although i'm still loath to try them out. Burst cannons AREN'T. Your firewarriors have pretty much the same gun, stealths HAVE the same gun, why take it on the suit when he can have something else they CAN'T have?
Your 'Fiery Death' team fusion man sticks out as a 'i'd better take one of them incase blah....oh and one of them in case blah......oh poop, its a terminator.' Yes the team is a suicide team, so give them one task and make them REALLY good at it. They've already got a hard job (make their points back in one turn, even with a 2+ re-rollable invulnerable they wouldn't survive another turn if they're as dangerous as a suicide team should be), so why make it even harder and complex? Its hard enough to find a safe drop zone next a bunch of toastable infantry without trying to find a tank next to them as well. One job, one team.
I think you need to play 'Army of Two'. Your looking at the 'aggro' weapons (high volume of shots, or high strength), which is all well and good, but its always the sem invis guy with the sniper or BResque rifle that rips into the baddies.
If your 'el gest hit by a barrage of 3 missiles (or 2 now), one has to go to him, which means the drone might survive, but he won't. If you play an army that can't get multiple missile/lascannons off at you, the shield drone is less useful than the GD, singles are easier to hide from. Against guard and similar armies if you get seen by a fire team you just better hope the dice gods liked your prebattle sacrafice, a SD won't save him (a GD will take a wound off of him, and its cheaper than the SD, if the SD and 'el survive, you've pretty much used his luck anyway, if the GD dies, meh. Its a frissbee and it did its job)
I think that's about it, fire away with anymore questions ( i won't answer them for a while, its off to the land of 'study harder you slackass!' for a few hours.)
Last edited by Spartan Command061; October 16th, 2008 at 12:34.
When I build a list I build it to handle all-comers. I do not build lists to handle particular armies and one example in one game is not a basis to take a unit or configuration (any unit can have one good day). Yep I agree that IF (and that is a big IF) you get the unit in range to hit and all the other factors are kind then you will get casualties with Flamers. However I find the following things usually occur:
(1)Hoard armies: players who field hoard type lists (of which I am one 'Nids') are more than aware of what Flamers can do. To mitigate this they use a few tactics. The best one is simple spacing, an inch or two between models makes it very hard to get a decent amount under any template especially a Flamer. Submunnitions suffer from the same problem but at least your Hammerhead is feet away and not inches away, also you are not relying on random deep strike to get position and the new scatter rules make it fairly accurate.
(2)The other tactic is simply to take large units, Ok the unit will take losses but the survivors will be in assault or shooting next turn and then that expensive unit is doing nothing apart from dying. The simple fact is that hoard armies have a couple of things in common “cheap unit choices” and “large unit sizes” so you are basically going to find it hard to make the flamer units points back and to do enough damage to a unit to prevent return damage. XV8’s should never be in a position where they cannot put distance between themselves and the target unit and DS makes this impossible. Even with Plasma and MP’s you need to carefully evaluate the damage potential of the weapons you are firing and to make sure you have an effective escape route. If I knew someone was going to DS a flamer equipped XV8 unit into my Nid list I would be smiling and laughing on the inside .
If you take XV8’s they should be filling roles that you cannot easily fill utilising other parts of the army. For instance infantry killing is easily performed by a myriad of units (FW’s, Stealth’s, Kroot, Hammerheads, Drones etc), If you use the HH for infantry killing however you have a problem do you kill the light vehicle or the infantry? By taking Deathrains you alleviate this problem because DR’s are the premier light vehicle killer of the Tau list and they are not to shabby at killing pretty much anything else. Taking DR’s also means you free up your HQ XV8’s to go hunting tough targets like other HQ’s Monstrous creatures, MEQ and Termie units etc.
If you take Flamers and BC’s on XV8’s you are basically losing a hell of a lot more than you gain.
The Fireknife unit is a lot more attractive win 5th with the ability to take its own ML support (ML Drone) and this means they make much better anti MEQ, Termie, Tough unit and light vehicle killers (and they will dent any unit they hit, even light infantry hoards with a 3 man squad pumping out 12 mid strength shots at 12", 6 of which are AP2). So why on earth would you want to lose all this effectiveness’ and versatility by taking BC’s and Flamers which are only of minor use against a limited range of targets?
No matter how much others enthuse about the flamer on an XV8, the simple fact of the matter is you are compromising the rest of the list by taking them and I for one am not prepared to lose what a good Deathrain can provide for the list to take Flamers or BC's
Spartan did a fine job of explaining why Shield Drones are not that much cop on the XV8. If you want to take Drones the take Gun Drones or even better just use the Drones from a Devilfish