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How do you deal with vehicles;
i have found problems with dealing with some heavy tanks as tyranid. In 1000 points i used 2 zoanthorpes and a sniperfex this had a bit of a tough time against a chaos predator as only the zoanthropse could destroy it. I got lucky really as it was a one of the first games for each of us so my zoanthropes didnt get targeted as the sniperfex looked more inviting target. But since thge glancing hit nerf sniperfexes arent great anymore so with a realistic save of 4+ the usual cover save you can get against the type of weapons being fired your going to get killed.
Max 3 zoanthropes = max 6-4+ saves after that no way for vehicle to be destroyed.
The only othe roption seems close combat but a few lascannons seem to render anything for similiar points to the vehicle your trying to kill dead as you have to be within 18" thats at least 1 turn of enemy shooting and thats if you rincredibly lucky with enemy anti tank weapons which will be targeted at your anti tank rendering it dead.
so A. do you have any problems with heavy vehicles
and B. if not what are your antitank solutions
My regular opponent knows this weakness and does his best to exploit it. Here are some possible options. It's what I've done in the past, and it has worked for me.
1. Ignore them. Focus on destroying the troops, while keeping your own in cover. The weakness of this is obvious, but sometimes you can weaken the effect of enemy artillery by staying in cover.
2. March your MCs up close, shooting constantly, then assaulting when you get the chance. Fexes do better in assault against vehicles than shooting. I have taken out many Land Raiders with this tactic. Occasionally I will make a cheap fex with close combat upgrades and send him running straight at my opponent. I will sometimes put him out of cover to make him a more attractive target. He will draw a lot of firepower, while the rest of your troops get in position. This is a very risky tactic, but it has paid off for me before.
3. Concentrated firepower. Enough sniperfexes will eventually take that vehicle down.
4. Cover. Keeping your guys in cover cuts a vehicle's effectiveness in half. Screen your more valuable troops with gaunts.
Heavy vehicles are our weakness, but I have had the best results with #2. Keep marching those sniperfexes forward. Hopefully you'll get some shaken/stunned long enough to assault it with one of your MCs. Remember, keeping a vehicle shaken/stunned the whole game even if you can't crack it can buy time.
Farseer Faolain of Craftworld Tuathana
Overlord of Hive Fleet Shoggoth
See my projects and tutorials at: http://awakeningynnead.blogspot.com
Flying tyrant with Warp field. When you know you're close enough, fly 12", run d6", assault 6". With 2d6+6 or 7 in CC, you should be able to penetrate the AV of any vehicle.
Then get a 'fex in close and you're looking at a 2d6+9 or 10 to penetrate AV... it's ridiculous.
I had a flying tyrant jump from vehicle to vehicle to vehicle to vehicle in a couple games just recking crap. MC's are brutal against vehicles in CC.
"Beware the fury of a patient man." - John Dryden
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Hive Fleet Terminus: 10-1-1
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Thanks for quick reply
By the looks of it i will genearally use option 1 after the zoanthropes are dead as in higher points i could use a cc fex but a sniperfex used to its max ptential will take about 3/4 turns to assualt a vehicle. flying tyrant could be assualting by turn 2/3 however thay are better at killing troops
option 2 doesnt seem a very efficient way on its own you need a dedicated mc to take out vehicles A. taking a very useful hq elite or hs spot and B. tropp killer equivelent being more powerfull or you could try to move up your mcs but generally getting in the right positions to attack your normal target and the vehicleis difficult given you have 12" less range at least
option 3 concentrated firepower has the problem of only having space for up to 3 sniperfexes althought you would probably only take 2 and the zoanthropes
option 4 Cover does rquire covering screens of cheap guants generally which being that troop choices are generally the thing your trying to use most effectively though i guess taking up 1 troop slot with a huge guant squad wont be too bad as its only 1 troop less in missions and only 1 kill point
But i guess a clever combination of them all may work (time to buy even more guants)
Monstrous creatures are a difficult proposition at 1000 points or less, since they are quite expensive but do better the more of them you have. One MC is a target priority. Two are a choice. Three or more are a difficult tactical decision.
But you can still play more combinations. For instance, two sniper fexes will almost certainly keep a predator suppressed until at least one of them is in assault range of it. They will also absorb a lot of (increasingly panicky) fire from the rest of the food's gunline, which helps out your assault broods. Faolain's cheap cc fex is another way to do this.
A sniperfex and a winged hive tyrant is a splendid synergy - the sniperfex only has to live long enough for the WHT to get into claw range of the vehicle. A sniperfex and a broodlord also works. A sniperfex and a shooty walking tyrant are a good match as well, since you can use them as cover for each other as you advance, to share out the wounds.
A lictor can be a nasty surprise for a vehicle parked at the back of the food's lines, as can deepstriking gargoyles. They're less reliable than they could be, however, and quite expensive at 1000 points.
I guess flyrant may be way to go but that does take a lot of antitroop away with standard dual twinlinked devourer tyrant
The only problem i see with both is an mc in combat is and mc not getting hit by enemy antitank weaponry and i find lascannon fire or equiv does hurt a flyrant may be safe but a walking fex seems a bit less safe especially with the relative poor saves for both instawound or 6+ save generally not much cover for a flyrant.
Well im decided even though im still not 100% sure but i will have an elite fex some zoans and a sniperfex saving the extra hs slot for a biovore (i know there terrible in 5th but i still like them for some reason) shielded by a large squad of guants should be just about ok
Thanks for both of you for help
I find 3 mcs quite difficult to fit in 1000points at times. Roughly 400 points on average.
2 sniperfexes are fine but i like biovores for some unknown reason and u do have to get to 12" of a vehicle in the turn before you assualt
Once again the probl being A. points and B. limitations of having superb ways to do a winged hive tyrant using a turn to take out a vwehicle and then possibly a 2nd turn to get to a 2nd appropriated target means 2 turns less targetting troops which imo is what they tend to do best
Gargoyles i will never try because although they do look good they are so expendive to buy and it would seem a paint to make that many wings. Lictor doesnt look too bad but they still need to have some good rolling plus quite lucky deployment area/
but overall you guys have calmed my fear of heavy tanks 1 screen of guants to make lascannons worthless + mcs and zoanthropes = dead tanks
Though i still think my lists will be low on mcs my problem being i like to use models i have as otherwise they seem wasted 6 warriors broodlord and a fondness for licrtors and biovores means mcs lacking
In genearal though point for points heavy tanks still have us licked 3 zoanthropes or 1 mc is not guarentee kill
Sorry for my wierd reply order some nice people decided to reply while i was typing
Last edited by 16Ogretyrant07; October 13th, 2008 at 00:02.
I usually rely on my Flyrant or a 'Fex in melee to take down tanks, with the MC bonus for penetration it usually goes down on the charge, or at least is incapacitated enough thta it won't bother me much at all.
I guess im overly cautious, a hive tyrant has nearly a 35% chance to lose a wound from 1 imperial guard lacannon or nealry 58% chance as Sm or csm so 12 ig lascannons or 7 sm/csm lascannons kill a hive tyrant and thats with warpfield generally tyrant is too fast to get cover
Too fast to get to cover? Care to elaborate? My Tyrant has next to no trouble getting into some juicy cover because of the downright nasty Flesh Hooks + Wings combo. Lascannons are nasty, and my Guard buddy and my brother who used to run CSM exploited this to no end, but even when my brother ran two Land Raiders up my ass I have gone undefeated (I dunno why, Im still new at this).