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AKM and I met in person for a game today (he won, 9 kill points to 6) and at one point in the game I completely misunderstood one of the new rules in 5th edition, and it cost me dearly. I wanted to make sure others didn't make the same mistake.
In 5th edition, unless you have frag grenades/stikkbombs, if you make a difficult/dangerous terrain roll during your turn for any reason and then assault your opponent, than your unit strikes at initiative 1.
Now, I knew this was the case when assaulting opponents in cover when you start outside cover, but I didn't know that your initiative still became 1 even if you both started your movement inside/behind cover. Even if both units start their movement 1 inch away from each other in the same piece of terrain, if you assault him then your initiative is 1. Oddly enough, even if you assault out of cover and attack an opponent standing out in the open, you still get your initiative set to 1. No matter what the circumstance, if you're slowed down by terrain, you're striking after everything besides the powerklaws.
Suddenly the stikkbomb chukka doesn't seem like a bad upgrade to have. I wouldn't give it to every trukk of boyz, but perhaps for one of them, and any elite unit that doesn't already have them. Granted, it won't help against Eldar or Marines, but it could easily make the difference between victory and defeat when fighting other ork players.
Does anyone have any other thoughts or experiences with this rule?
but given orks have poor I values this isn't a big deal to us, but remember that for enemies charging us, I 2 orks striking first helps alot
Since basic boyz have I3 charging, I don't even bother with stikk bombs. It doesn't help against marines, bugs or eldar and IG getting a few swings in is not going to cause a problem.
Don't forget other Orks! That was essentially the problem. My opponent was hiding most of his large groups of slugga boyz inside terrain. All I had near them at the time were units in transports, so no matter what I did, the boyz in the terrain would get to strike first, which would basically wipe out any unit I threw at them.
A unit of 20-30 boyz inside a large piece of terrain is basically immune to assaults, unless the assaulting opponent has frag grenades/stikkbombs.
Granted, this is only really an issue against orks, but you have to prepare for every possible situation.
Righto, forgot about other Orks (I've never fought Orks before, it's good to be the only Ork player in ==My== group )
In that case, frags would be useful. Though I'd just shoot them (or burn them) or abuse their counter-attacks to drag them out of cover for later.
So in your original post Grax you say: "In 5th edition, unless you have frag grenades/stikkbombs, if you make a difficult/dangerous terrain roll during your turn for any reason and then assault your opponent, than your unit strikes at initiative 1.". You continue explaining that if you move out of terrain during you movement phase and charge from open ground to a unit in the open during your assualt phase, you count as initiative 1 because you moved through terrain in your movement phase. Assuming this is what you meant, I would love to know how you and your opponent came to this.
I looked it up later and found the explanation of moving through cover on page 36 of the rulebook, and in that section it specifically says if you move through terrain during your assualt phase, following the rules for assualting on page 34, you are at initiative 1. So, this to me is very clear that if you move through terrain in the assualt only, you are initiative 1, not if you move during your movement phase. If this isn't the case can you direct me to where it says otherwise?
Regardless, the problem still stands. If your opponent is an ork player with large groups of boyz sitting in terrain, you're going to have a lot of trouble getting rid of them unless you have stikkbombz/frag grenades, especially if you're using trukkboyz. This doesn't just go for orks, but all armies, really. Large groups of boyz in terrain are virtually immune to assaults, unless frag grenades are used.
Yes, Jmanj is correct. This applies only if the assault movement takes your unit through difficult terrain.
And it's yet another reason why orks rock in 5th ed. They benefit enormously from cover in both the shooting and assault phases. This is partially negated for assaults given the large number of units that now come equipped automatically with grenades (most of the chaos and marines armies).
"Politics is the womb in which war develops"
And don't forget Howling Banshees with their "we-ignore-every-rule-in-the-rule-book-because-we're-Eldar" Banshee Masks...
I've been thinking of taking small units of Grots screened by the mobs to use as a sacrificial unit against units like Banshees, Terminators, etc. What does everyone else think?
If green power armour is good enough for the Fallen One, then its good enough for the rest of us...