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Yes! i do not even play tau since then!
No! what are you talking about, tau is greater then ever!
I do not realy know... they seem pretty much the same?
i know, it's not realy up to date but i'm pretty new to librarium online so i couldn't posted it earlier.
i find myself giving my tau the order to kill dust in shelf, why? because i think the new Tau empire codex sucks!
especially with the new rulebook?
what do you think about it? you had enough time to test-play
It's actually not very different to the previous edition beyond a couple additional wargear items, some clarifications, a couple new units, and different special characters. If anything, it's just as good as the previous codex; personally, the additional options provided class it as better than the previous one.
Why don't you like it?
but i with the new Tau Empire codex everything seemed to get worse for me,
some plus's and contra's:
XV8 became cheaper
XV15/25 could take wargear options
Markerlights became more efficient
Shield drone became more efficent
Kroot unit's enhancement
Sniper Drone's, 80 points for a heavy support stealing 4 model unit who could bassicaly hit on a 4+, compared they didn't explode or overheated! with a morale like a guardsmen!
Vespid's! 16 points for a model who has a 5+ save and a weapon where you almost has to stand at the enemy's side to hit them!
Piranha! a better armoured version of the land speeder but with so much weaponry as a single XV15 at a higher points cost,
Sky Ray! the first artillery tank in the whole 40K who could use up it's ammunition! has to roll 2 times to hit! and that with nothing more than a single Krak Missile? and to make it worse, a points cost that he almost (fully NEEDED upgrades) breaches the 200 points mark, i could bring a whole Predator squadron for a few points more!
Special Issue items! only 1 per army!? c'mon! even orks can field 2 shock attack guns and only because their aren't any more HQ slots left! and SO effective where these special thingies neither!
to name but a few, but i'm open for discussion, just say what you think of things like Sky Ray or Vespids
There are some extremely good arguments for the Skyray, I'll leave it to those who use them the most to put them here (or, you can search this forum for discussions on the topic). I have to say, though, that every single "con" you've come up with are bonus additions to the Tau Empire codex, which were not in the Tau codex originally. Nothing was removed to allow for room of these options, so how does that make it a worse codex?
look, for an example: the chaos space marine has overall the same point costs like earlier, but in the new codex they get: CCW, Bolt pistol, frag & krak grenades.
the Fire warrior has the same points cost, and get's nothing more...
more examples: the ork boy can do a bit less then in their former codex but costs switch to almost the half of the original!
same with marines and maybe even eldar (i do not know their former codex so i will keep my mouth shut about them)
the problem with Tau is mostly that they kept the same, while the other races did something like 'evolving'
an other subject: nasty tricks! Tau have none or maybe very few when your a experiences player.
while, Eldar, Marine, Chaos, Daemon and Orks bristle with them!
and then point costs! i will take the vespid again, now compare it with an ork loota, the vespid even costs 1 point more!
(this may be tacticaly different unit's, i know, but overall will you score a better chance with winning your points back with loota's then with vespids)
my overall opinion: it just ain't fair that they stay where they are while the other *new* races get a whole crap-load of nasty stuff.
The same sort of argument could be levelled at any codex versus a brand new one. Perhaps if I can diverge to the Space Wolves, whose codex has not been updated since 3rd Edition. Or the Dark Eldar whose codex is even older. Orks waited 8 years to get their present codex. Daemonhunter armies still have to use Assault Cannons with Heavy 3, no rending. Space Marines have just received a brand new codex with shedloads of nastiness in it. How do Tau players respond with their 4th Ed codex vs the latest 5th Ed one? With different tactics.my overall opinion: it just ain't fair that they stay where they are while the other *new* races get a whole crap-load of nasty stuff.
Sorry if this post sounds harsh but I really don't understand how you can say that Codex Tau Empire is worse than Codex Tau. In a continually evolving game system, there is obviously going to be a time lag between the various codices. It takes roughly 3 years for a new codex to be fully evaluated and sent to print. Rulebooks are roughly every 5 years. It's just not really realistic to expect GW to release a complete set of new codices to coincide with new rules etc.
And the Skyray is a great asset. Two mobile markerlights on an AV13 frame, with DP pretty much giving it permanent protection and the missiles launchable by any ML. A secondary weapon system available as well....hey, this thing rocks.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
I agree with Swordcommander on this issue. I was not thrilled with the new Codex not because it was bad per se, but because it didn't change much. Yes it added a few units, but none of them where, IMO, very impressive.
The sniper teams aren't bad at all, it is just where they where placed in the FOC they are competing with choices that overshadow them substantially. I don't care for the Vespid because, as has been stated, they are incredibly fragile and have nothing to help them survive at the short range they have to engage at.
The only thing in the new codex I unequivocally dislike is the Skyray. It was a great disapointment to me when I saw that it had limited shots (and those shots wheren't even very good).
It just seemed like they took our old codex, mixed it up a little bit, updated it to the FAQ and then sent it out to get another $22 from the Tau players without adding much that we did not have before. The other codexes that have come out in the last few years (excluding the Ork, as I did not know much about them before the new codex so I can't say what changed) got substantive changes to their armies. Eldar got the Fire Prism (and Pathfinders as troops), CSM got Cult troops as standard, and SM got boats of new things but we really didn't get much that was substantial.
Last edited by Vesper; October 19th, 2008 at 01:55.
Taumpire is to me what codex tau was supposed to be, and its largely an improved and nastier product (especially in 5th, although in 4thed we were still very strong).
Your pro's are pretty much all correct, although stealths being able to take support systems seems moot to me, as you don't want them to be more expensive. You missed out the Targetting array for suits (excellent on shas'els and great on certain elite builds). Oh and the Skyray (although i am not a fan of it, much prefering more railgun shots, it gives us the ability to field tank only armies without missing out on the vital Markerlights, and its cheap enough to actually be a viable choice)
Your cons are basically all recognised as poor units, the most effective of the lot being the skyray, which i must say, i can't get to cost over 200pts. All you need is a Distruption Pod and targetting array depending on points allowance, it seems to me your just suffering from an inability to distinguish between needed upgrades and useless expensive toys thrown in to appease fluffier players.
I'm not sure what your beef with the sniper drones is, are you complaining about a shoddy BS? Or their gun (which doesn't explode anymore). My only real gripe with them is their placement under heavy support, i just can't be convinced that losing a potential railgun is worth 3 rail rifles. (that and they're a tad expensive)
Vespids are regarded by most as expensive underperforming poor excuses for chitinous ceremite eaters. But since they weren't in the old codex their impact is nill (except for a small fluff bonus).
Piranha's are expensive and fairly rubbish, although they have a following of people who use them, from all reports, with deadly force. But for me and the majority, they're to expensive for a FB or gunboat.
I actually like the Special Issue items from a fluff perspective, rules wise they're pretty shoddy (AFP excepted), and should only be considered by fluffy players and those who trust probability not to wack them where it hurts. Only taking one of each increases the 'rareness' impact of each item, making it more fluffy, and prevents you from completely killing the effectivness of your suits (god forbid 9 CIB's.....wait, that might be fun )
So all in all, we got some good things (kroot, cheaper units, fluffy units), some awesome things (Distruption Pod, Targetting array, Markerlights), and some new things which didn't replace anything in the old codex, so no harm done (we scored a more fleshed out race, and the ability to create a less boring army than necrons as we have a greater variety to choose from). I can't think of one thing that got worse with the new codex.....wait, i lie....
.....Special Characters. I don't like them, not the Farsight (a big lump of expensive meh, great fluff and a good challenge with the restrictions, but suckass at everything from CC to flipping grox patties), not shadowsun (with her trio of drones, and two FB's of OMG i killed your tank....NOT THE FACE!!!! Although granted she is a pretty cool model and leaves room for our next edition to get dual BC wielding stealth suits ), and most definetly not that stupid bloody space pope with a stick and pair of naked statues who forgot they still fail in melee. (Ethereals should be nowhere near the field of combat, unless they mucked up and got attacked, the only decent one in my opinion was Aun'shi, who was an awesome model a didn't suck in CC worse than a limbless pelican tied to a giant panda sniffing mushroom.)
You remember that this is what makes tau what they are they dont have the special weaponry on infantry like SM CSM and Eldar they dont get many different troop choices and they do not benefit from any other factions within them.
But youve also got to remember the good things
No other army gets an armoury for Vehicles, Suits and Infantry they get some upgrades but dont get the wargear which means no limitations basically (nigh the honour blade)
Tau also have one of the if not the best elites choice in the game (nigh sternguard) and these elites are amazingly good wicked weapons wicked wargear and great supporting systems also they have 2 wounds a great str and have JSJ
They have the most effective waeponry from the railgun for decent points on the hammerhead or really low on a broadside (with ASS) to the incredibly low cost of the twin linked missile pod which just laughs in the face of all the auto cannons
Farsight isnt actually shit in close combat the only thing that he needs to worry about in CC is another character because that is when he would lose because you take him with a 7 man bodyguard all with a range of weaponry then he is really deadly because you wipe out multiple squads around him and then assault one youll be surprised what happens
If he could take crisis suits as a troops choice in squads of 5 then i would definately go him but otherwise ill just wait for my chaos army to be done so i can get some lolz from it.
Shadowsun is godly you have all your units in cover with their 10 leadership 4+ cover you just stand there and laugh as you slowly lose models but dont run .
No comment on Aunva as his results would most definately vary he has his ups but he also has downs
I personally reckon that tau have taken alot of debuffs in the new rulebook but also have 2 advantages other armies dont and that is TLOS effects tau much more than other races and the fact we can remove cover saves with something other than flamers
I am still dissapointed in the tau empire though as tau out of all the races that got a new codex in the last 2 years are the only ones that cannot be considered broken in anyway. (part from massed suits with massed fire warriors not including farsight enclaves) and we dont have HQ characters that say we can take an elites choice as a troops or the entire army gets this
dude...do shas'la really NEED any more buffs? they've already got the only s5 infantry weapons in the game, for the same price as a stormtrooper, avenger, scout, and sister.