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I currently run multiple squads of 6 bikes and 3 bikes with a spear warlock with embolden for anti tank. Lately I have considered mushing the squads together to have 2 squads of 9 bikes and a warlock with conceal on each. Both squads would also get a jetbike Farseer with fortune and doom. This would give me a 3+ rerollable armor save, 4+ reroll behind cover and 5+ reroll in the open. The doom would be to get the most out of the shuriken catapults since they would be rerolling to hit and to wound. I had also considered guide, but I am not sure it would help as much. It would be a very expensive (around 450 points), but the whole squad would be able to reroll pretty much everything. Has anyone else had any experience with or against a unit like this?
Trust me. That is a waste of points. A DA squad in a serpent with farseer with doom is cheaper and more effective. for that many points you need something more killy. It is very vulnerable to assault and with an effective range of 18 inches (Shuriken Cat + Assault Move) you will get caught. You have no armour saves against power weapons etc in combat so they would be screwed and with so many points invested in it your likely to be up against cc specialists.
Last edited by Farseer Rusty; October 30th, 2008 at 06:49.
"I did my first model at the age of 7"
Wow. When I first read that I misinterpreted it. Bad.
While I am sure the the bladstorming avengers can deal more damage in a single round they are less survivable, seeing as they only have a 4+ save. Both squads cost close to the same points after you factor in the wave serpent and bikes are faster overall because they get their move every round.
You are right about the power of the transport mech eldar, but I play a light mech list(jetbikes, warwalkers, and vypers mainly with other units to support) that relies heavily on speed. I am trying to avoid the standard mech list as I already have one for my first army. I know full well that dire avengers can dump a buttload of shot out of those serpents, but I am trying to find something that fits more with my current list.
I run lots of jetbikes now (or rather I did in 4th edition and am now picking up my old list again), and with all the other shooting and speed in my list I have yet to find a CC unit that I couldn't kill from massed fire or just simply ignore. It might look poor on paper, but I guess the whole is more than the sum of its parts.
I do have the same concerns you have about being too close, not just for CC, but for return fire. While the unit seems is rather resilient to bolters, I am afraid that getting in 12" for those catapult shots leaves me vulnerable to plasma, melta and all sort of problems. Previously I would stay at the 24 mark and hop back for the first couple turns until units were softened up a bit before moving in to unload.
I have played one game with the new setup and I wasn't disappointed. It was against a drop pod and deep strike Space Marine army, and I tore him apart. The thing is, I am not sure if it was the new way I run my bikes, or just the fact that the rest of my army is already solid. It did effect how shots were fired at me and where he chose to deep strike for sure, as he mostly fired what little he could at other things because of the saves.
Seems like a lot of eggs in one basket to me, but then again i only rarely use jetbikes and when I do it s couple of units of 3 barebones for last turn contesting or capturing of objectives!
I can see how it would be very survivable, but 2 squads of 10 jetbikes takes up a hell of a lot of space on the table, and you may be hard pressed to keep more than half of the squad in cover in gain that particular bonus. Plus, having played the re-rollable saves Seer council of doom many times, massed shots will get through! And when every marine within 24" can draw line of sight to you bikes they will drop!
However, it seems like an exceptionally interesting unit, and if you've had succes with them so far, go for it! keep us posted on how they do!
Herald of the Colonel; Festooned with pistols, riddled with vermin, and finger lickin' good...
your unit is not entirely unlike the Jetbike seer council that was in many peoples list at the various GTs (there' are plenty of bat reps to be found on other web bards like dakka) Interestingly, at least one guy came up against 3 of them in his 6 games.
Rerollable saves are where it's at. However, i'd suggest embolden instead of conceal. If ou're ou tthe open, I'd make use of turbo boosting insta 3+ instead of conceal. It means you have to play the army a little more tactically, but it also means a) you can reoll your psychic tests with your farseer and b) you are much les likely to run off the board.
For reference, here's the jetbike seercouncil i'm running these days:
Farseer Jetbike Fortune (runes of warding against psycher heavy opponents)
Warlock jetbike enhance
Warlock jetbike embolden
(warlock jetbike) if i have the points.
The witchblades are a beautiful thing. With embolden you're hitting most of your opponents on 3+ / 2+ and you're not taking any saves yourself, forcing some very messy CC resolutions (either multiple extra wounds on fearless units or a very difficult morale test) High initiative means you typically catch and kill the unit you attacked.
Works great against orks.
I find it surprising that lots of people are running jetbike seer councils as I tried them out a couple years ago and didn't find them that great for their excessive points cost. I tested out a similar list to yours(king88mob), though with destructor on the ones you have nothing on, and it just didn't seem to justify the 60 points per model the squad ended up being. I do use embolden on my small 3 man, tank hunting squads when I run my old list for bikes. I think the conceal might be better considering how large the squad is to get those cover saves but only time will tell. I certainly did wish I had embolden when I got perils of the warp twice against IG, though I might just drop runes of witnessing instead. I suppose that is the trade off, when you throw 4 psychic powers a turn.
vs. Space Marine Deep Strike/ Drop pod list.
The new space marine book hasn't changed how I feel about deepstrike based armies one bit. In short, I haven't met one I couldn't beat. Having your army come in piecemeal, scattering all over the board just seem like a bad idea, especially when my whole army can converge on the one or two units that came in that turn.
A large T-shaped road runs diagonally through the board with buildings on either side. Sort of like this, my local GW has tons of roads.
Strategy starts as soon as we roll for objectives. I set up my two objective markers out in the open, he puts his behind cover. I set up first and pick my corner (bottom right)and place my whole army down. Starcannon Warwalkers are behind cover with clear sight of the road, the scatter laser walkers on the other side of the building, and the rest of my list is behind them. He places 3 whole units down, A razorback out of sight behind a building, scouts with sniper rifles in the building in front of it and last a Tactical squad in another building.
Turn 1, and I go first. A small unit of dire avengers claims an objective in my deployment zone by going in a nearby building. Bike squad #1 turbo boosts left across the bottom, spreading out along the road. Bike squad #2 turbo boosts up/left onto the road and spreads out as well. Warp spiders hop on top of a building in the middle-ish where they can jump to support anything. The shooting from my walkers and vypers knocks out his two small 5-man squads, all he has is the razorback and its squad.
He drop pods in two sterguard vet squads. There isn't a whole lot of open space left that he can attack me from. There is a gap in the road between my bikes, and a space behind the building on my side (by the warp spiders/ dire avengers that are claiming). He drops one on each. The road pod is fine, but the other scatters into a building, mishaps and dies. The sterguard vet's now have the option of rapid firing (and one melta) at the jetbikes or starcannon walkers. Jetbikes have a 3+ reroll cover save (which would be waste for those fancy ap3 shots, so he opts for the walkers. They aren't all in range, but they manage to stun one walker thanks to cover. HIs razorback moves close to an objective that his dead tactical squad was holding.
Turn 2, my whole army kills his sternguard and immobilize+weapon destroy his razorback. I then Jump back to spread out again.
He only gets, one thing to deep strike this turn, his dread. Even less room this round, and it scatters, mishaps, and I get to place it. I put it way off in the corner. His tactical squad gets out of the razorback and in to cover to claim the objective the rest of their squad used to have next round.
Turn 3, my other squad of avengers claim an objective. My vypers shake the dread. I kill his tactical squad.
He gets shooty terminators with cyclone missiles, and a squad of assault marines. He places them both far away so they wont scatter into anything. The Terminators are at the top of the board on the road, about 12" from from my upper jetbikes, the assault marines are back in my deployment zone in range of my dire avengers back there.
Turn 4, I doom the terminators. Dire avengers and scatter walkers fire at the 5 man assault squad and kill it. Everything else attempts to get rid of his terminators (minus the starcannon walkers because they can't see). I kill everything but his missile launchers.
He moves his dread closer, his termies fire their missile launchers and manage to kill one jetbike (my first loss).
Turn 5, I immobilize the dread and kill his remaining terminators.
He deep strikes the second half of the terminator squad, which has chainfists, back in his deployment zone along with a 5 man squad with hero of some sort.
Turn 6, I doom both squads just about everything fires at them(which means star cannons on termies this time yay!), killing everything left. Game over.
Yep, this seriously happened. I lost one bike, and he lost everything. The speed and long range of the list means I can get to where ever I need to be and put down crazy amounts of fire. No place is safe from retaliation to deep strike, and wherever you land there might not be anything around to shoot at or assault next turn if you survive. With the new SM book, I will definitely be using my light vehicle list more often. I have one thing to say to space marine players: DEEP STRIKING SUCKS, STOP DOING IT!
Too many words, IG game later.
Last edited by frozencore; October 30th, 2008 at 22:04.
use your mobility to get your priorities first. Against most lists, this should be it:
Armor (especially pie-plate stuff)
Seriously. They are EXTREMELY effective, simply because your opponent has no answer to it. People pound everything they have in my squad for like three turns, and I've only lost 4-6 men, out of 14. Ow, and you don't always have to move AWAY from the enemy... sometimes, after only about 4 guys (even marines) are left after some lucky saves (redundancy, combined with doom or guide should usually wipe them out, but you never know), and you can just assault them with the entire squad, they will die...
consider the psychological effect that it has on an opponent when he sees his opponent deploy 28 jetbikes and 6 vypers, when he's never faced anything like a bike list before...
Herald of the Colonel; Festooned with pistols, riddled with vermin, and finger lickin' good...
While that seems like a great game you shouldn't underestimate a drop pod list in the hands of some one who knows how to use it, because it seems like this player didn't know what he was doing in order to take that amount of casualties and only inflict one of his own.
But still, that's looks like a pretty awesome game (at least from your side lol) do you have your list posted?
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
Killed 900 pts worth of Blood Angels in 2 turns while only loosing 4 pts.