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No idea if this would work but just now i thought that vespid could be useful against Havoc squads and small heavy weapon teams.
now there are 2 options to go with
1. you start around 30" away you move to 18" then the following turn you move in and assualt.
2. you start 24" away you move in shoot then next turn mov ein shoot and assualt.
With option 1 your protected against rapid fire from any non heavy wepon members of the squad. your opponent may not be aware of what the squad can do so may not even stop firing against other more important targets.
With option 2 you get an extra shooting turn in however if the shooting is good your opponent might decide to fire back.
I personally find Heavy weapon squads some of the most annoying or the ones that waste most of your shooting.
Now the problem comes when they fire back at you but most likely they will be equipped to take out vehicles. Often they may have missile launchers but these do not bipass the save unlike normal marine bolters. also they have had to waste a turn of shooting at crisis suits or vehicles because theve had to fire on the vespid instead. A rapid fire Boltgun is actually more damaging to Vespid than a Lascannon.
For option 1, if they shoot back
Barring the worst luck ever the Vespid will have 2 to 3 left. youve lost half the squad how bad is that, however you've stopped the squad targetting a vehicle for 1 turn.
You get to shoot at them killing 1 then you tie them up in assault, You will probably lose combat but not by much and it wont be too unlikely to draw or even win. youll probably stick in combat with high leadership. Youve successfully stopped them shooting for 2 turns.
If they dont shoot back
you kill 2 then go straight into assualt, they take leadership test they pass. you go into assault and kill 1, you win combat they stay in.
Youve tied them up for at least a turn and you may even win the combat.
with option 2 they will be pretty much guarenteed to shoot back. If you lost 40% of your squad then your gonna do something about it.
You shoot you kill 2. They pass leadership. Even if they fail it doesnt matter youll still be in range next turn to shoot and assault. When they shoot back most people will remove the guy without the heavy weapon first, They kill 2 just about.
You fire again you kill about 1. They taker a leadership test like the first time but you can just assualt.
4 vespid vs 2 non combat Meq, you kill 1 they dont kill anything. it grinds on untill you eventually win. you tie them up for lots of turns.
if they dont shoot back
You kill 4 then assualt 1 marine and kill him you kill the squad.
In conclusion if you can't be bothered to read any of that, you will either destory the squad in 2 turns thus they dont do anything for following turns or you just tie them up for at least 2 turns.
Its not a thoroughly drawn out tactic just an idea or overview.
So any thoughts on this use of the virtually useless Vespid. Any comments at all, are my midnight ramblings incomprehensible or just stupid?
Last edited by 16Ogretyrant07; November 1st, 2008 at 16:17.
Except a Missile launcher and a lascannon will kill a vespid outright. Missile launchers can ignore vespid armour saves, unless vespid got a 2+ save.Now the problem comes when they fire back at you but most likely they will be equipped to take out vehicles. Often they may have missile launchers but these do not bipass the save unlike normal marine bolters. also they have had to waste a turn of shooting at crisis suits or vehicles because theve had to fire on the vespid instead. A rapid fire Boltgun is actually more damaging to Vespid than a Lascannon.Vespid are expensive, for the short range that they have. And well drones are cheap and can be extremely annoying, your opponent likely won't be losing as many models if gun drones shoot at him, but they are far cheaper to waste, if you want to distract your opponent from shooting your more valuable models.So any thoughts on this use of the virtually useless Vespid. Any comments at all, are my midnight ramblings incomprehensible or just stupid?
Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss
Vespids get killed outright by bolters hense no real difference less shots means less deaths. All my maths was accurate with them ignoring saves.
I have no idea about you but my opponents tend to get more distracted by things that are killing his men rather than ones that arent.
To my knowledge gun drones will have a tougher time getting to assault range that being the only real thing which gun drones will be able to do to interupt the opponent.
Gun drones arent much cheaper than vespid really. They will die just as fast if not faster against the Heavy weapons teams.
If you have any other ideas for vespid feel free to share them. They may be slightly overpriced for this but not vastly.
Ok. The Vespid are largely considered pathetic versions of Gaunts without the vast numbers of the Space Marines or the skill of the Orks.
Anyone who approaches the game with even a bit of sense knows this.
They know wrong.
Vespid move 19" to 24" if they plan to assault, and 18" if they shoot. Their weapons are the same damage profile of a Reaper launcher, and their initiative is faster than a Space Marine.
This is, in no way, saying you should rely on them for these roles.
The Vespid are in the very Kauyon image of a bait unit. Expendable Tau is a hard concept to believe in, but if used right it will win a game for you.
It works best with other Kauyon units:
The most ingenious use for Vespid is the fleet ablative meatwall. It is used as follows:
- Stealth Suits
- Broadside Suits
- Deathrain and Bright spear Crises
- Generally stationary Fire warriors
Place Broadside in advantageous firing line.
Enemy inevitably moves in to destroy Broadside, mostly in assault.
Vespid wait behind Broadside or nearby, flitting about and generally looking nonthreatening.
Enemy assaulters get close enough to be within 18" of Vespid.
Vespid move forward, everyone else who can shoots at the incoming enemy.
If enemy is plentiful, Vespid unleash foray and then assault, if not, surround them and perhaps assault.
Note that the Vespid squad and the Broadside are NOT THE ONLY MEMBERS OF THE ARMY! This tactic works based on the assumption that you are being smart about your . If the enemy squad is gone, Fleet back as far as you can, and wait to repeat.
This works well because Vespid will either die, fall back, or (rarely) wipe out the enemy, and your Broadsides will most likely keep all firing lanes open for your Broadsides.
The important thing is to keep the assaulters at bay for 1 turn. Keeping them out of assault range. Attack with numbers, this way you'll have a chance of surviving long enough to break off and blast the enemy where they now stand in the open.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
It clearly states they are jump infantry so they must have the ability to move 12" unless stated otherwise (Jetpacks are prime example if not the only)
So we have found 2 uses for vespid si far anyone else like to suggest some more.
For a start a Havoc or Devi squad is usually placed at maximum range to avoid return fire, this means that the Vespid have to move to get to them, this will mean they usually take fire, unless there is some serious cover available. Now given the new LOS rules and the fact that even if one model is in LOS then the WHOLE unit is taking wounds then the fact is that the 5+ SV Vespid are screwed. Also if you want to do any amount of damage then a 10 man squad (with strain leader) is needed and that is a serious cost issue and a seriously large squad to hide.
Vespid have many flaws, for instance the much vaunted initiative of the unit is undermined by a poor STR and average WS; their crap save also means they will come of worse. Another thing is the fact that the Strain leader is equipped differently to the squad (Helm) so must take its own wounds, if it fails and dies the unit is suddenly left with a really bad LDS.
Mance's tactic is (while valid) simply to singular a reason to take the unit. It is only of any use in one specific circumstance, the repelling of a unit attacking the XV88 unit' (or other lure/bait unit).
Here is the main problem I see with it, the opponent is hardly going to lose out, most will see what the tactic is with the Vespid and react accordingly. For the tactic to work you need a large Vespid squad (usually 160pts or over) this offers the opponent significant damage returns (even a small Marine type assault squad will maul a Vespid squad) and most players will use two or more units to pressure the XV88/Vespid combo. So basically this combination of expensive Xv88 and Vespid squad makes it more than worthwhile to actually risk a couple of units (usually an assault unit with cheaper expendable units).
If the tactic is spotted and he wishes to avoid the trap then the opponent can simply stay at range and shoot the XV88's with his own long range weaponry and also simply use the superior mobility of his armour/transports to avoid the restricted LOS of the XV88. If this is the case then you have a 160pt Vespid unit doing nothing.
This leaves the Tau player with a tough choice does he leave the Vespid hanging around the XV88 squad 'just in case' or does he move it away to actually do something (and leave the XV88 unit vulnerable).
This is my main fault with this 'guarding/preventative) type of tactic, it restricts your choices and makes you less likely to commit to fluid tactical decisions in response to the opponent. It is one of the main reasons I do not take Vespid, XV88 or Piranhas because both need support to work (and even then they struggle). Anything were you rely on a unit to protect another unit (or to lure the opponent in) can be used to the opponents advantage simply by not responding which leaves you flat footed.
The simple fact is that Vespid have way to many disadvantages to work well and I even tried a thread to find uses for Vespid myself (which failed spectacularly). Do not hold your breath waiting for more uses.
Yes, the defensive stance with the vespid can be ed with a good eye, but when it becomes apparent that the enemy has chaged stats you can move them around.
It just seems to me that Vespid were made to be a stalling tactic.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
You see this is my problem with using units as a preventative or guard unit. Kroot do it well but they are cheap and are much more effective in an assault, they also have bolter eq weapons and can rapid fire; but the most important thing about Kroot is they are cheap. A unit of Vespid is not cheap and like I said the new wound rules make the strain leader a very fragile and costly loss.
Please do not get me wrong if you can make the tactic work and it is your style of play then it is valid, I just think that Kroot are just as good (if not better as guard or as Kauyon) and it is very specific to the playstyle.
I also think that the 'stalling tactic' is really not what GW intended with this unit' I saw them creating them as a fast response MEQ killer, pity they screwed it up so badly