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How do any of you deal with Chaos Marine Daemon Princes?
Reason I'm asking is I've just had a game against a store manager's chaos force. Quite a difficult game, but in the end I managed to eliminate all but 1 of his troop choices and secure 2 of the 3 objectives, compared to his 1. However, with Chaos having the last turn, his 2 Lash Princes came out of hiding (they had been frustratingly difficult to get clear shots at all game long) and moved my warriors off the two objectives! Needless to say, this resulted in a large amount of mental swearing.
I had poured all the firepower I could into the princes whenever I could, taking them down to 1 and 3 wounds respectively, but evidently this isn't enough. So, what tactics can I employ to kill these champions of chaos?
Before I go, my list:
Lord with Orb
5 Scarab Swarms
Thanks in advance
My lord killed it with it's staff of light attack, in 1st turn. Had a little help b4 that though
my list against chaos today was.
Army » « Necrons » « Tyranids
I've never gone up against more than one, but the one I did I beat down with my scarabs+disruption fields.
Last edited by Nhyx; November 2nd, 2008 at 00:37.
Yes, I did deep-strike your sister...
Necrons : W-8 D-3 L-7 (Sleeping in their TombFoam, waiting for a new codex)
Chaos Forces (CSM/CD): W-42 D-19 L-28
Apocalypse Games : W-4 D-0 L-1 (4 Titans, Brass Scorp, 3 Baneblades, 2 Bombers, 3 Fighters, and a Partrage in a Pear Tree)
It depends what kind of Daemon Prince you're up against. Daemon Princes have a LOT of options to upgrade - in the new Daemon Codex, they cost a meager amount of points and have nearly 30 options to them to pick between, turning them into high-cost monsters. So, you could be dealing with a chump that costs less than 5 warriors, or a beast who compares to a Greater Daemon...or, most likely, something in between.
I'm going to assume certain things for the purposes of this discussion - Flight Move, S6 with exceptions, Breath of Chaos (with exceptions), and a general melee focus, since that's where they excell most.
CSM, Khorne Daemon, Slaanesh Daemon, and Unaligned Princes are all dealt with pretty much the same way. You can assume these guys have the Iron Hide 3+ armor save and their 5+ invuln. High WS, High initiatve and a general focus on CC means you need to pummel these guys fast - they'll want to be on top of you as soon as possible. Use high S, low AP weapons to force the 5+, and use things like Destroyers to force them to throw a lot of 3+ - they'll fail enough, Daemon Princes only have 4 wounds. Normally, DP's are T5, Immortals should work well, and even standard Gauss Flayers can do the job, albeit that should be a last resort.
Nurgle Princes are another matter. They get a toughness upgrade that makes them T6 - that's an entirely different ball game. Immortals can no longer be relied on, Destroyers are wounding on 4 instead of 3, and your warriors will only wound on 6. After all that, you'll be facing a 3+ save - chances that you can gun him down this way are low, but it still may be your only option. Again, try gunning him down with Heavies, but there's potentially another option, depending on your list:
Nurgle Princes have the option to take Noxious Touch for the same price as what normal Daemon DP's upgrade their strength to S6 for. This allows them to wound on 2+ in all cases. If you have that, why take the S6? I've almost never seen them do that. As a necron player, this works to your favor - it means the DP can't insta-kill Scarab Bases. It'd be a tarpit that'll last the whole game, and your scarabs move faster than DP's do.
The final princes you may run into are Tzeentch DP's. These are the most different when they come to how you need to deal with them, because while they have the stats to still pull off a decent fight in melee, it's not likely a Tzeentch player would take Flight move - it's expensive, and the shooting abilities of a Tzeentch player are strong enough to make up for it. They're long range, low AP, and with BS5, it's highly accurate. At least one shot will vaporize warriors, and another could potentially kill three with no save. (Breath of Chaos can be even more damaging, but it's close range.) Further, the Tzeentch DP has a 4+ invulnerable. Becuase of these factors, it's more likely to hang towards the back of the field and pick on your units, and probably didn't take the 3+ armor save. Don't waste heavy fire on it - Destroyers, Immortals can return sufficient fire and make him roll dice. Keep them in cover though - you're not providing him with a better save, and he eats yours. Scarabs also would work well here - again, it's unlikley that the DP took the strength upgrade.
SMann, you seem to be commenting on the DP's in the daemon codex, rather than the Chaos marine one. But don't worry, much of your advice still applies.
You do raise a good point about the types of daemon I come across, and they are namely these:
Daemon Prince #1
- Mark of Tzeentch
Daemon Prince #2
- Mark of Slannesh
- Lash of Submission
Daemon Prince #3
So all 3 are horrible to face in CC, and can get there fast, but the Lash Prince has the added bonus of being able to seriously mess up with my own forces' positioning.
Heavy Destroyers are vital in this new edition. However, Pariahs could be quite useful with their ability to absolutely wreck Daemon princes in close combat and their ability to reduce leadership. Less leadership=less succesful Lashes.
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.