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Im guessing that this may have been covered already but im wondering what people's position is re: playing with the new 5th edition rules.
Ive read on a few forums that the Necrons are disadvantaged with the new rulebook and i was talking to a guy the other day who plays Chaos Daemons (everyone round here tends to play them) and he was basically saying that they were severely disadvantaged and that it was almost like taking candy from kids to beat them. I appreciate that this could have been bravado, and i admit that im not quite Julius Ceasar when it comes to my tactics.
soooooo (ramble over) is it worth retiring the necs until the new codex comes out, keeping at it, or just put them on the bay of E? I play a few other armies but the Necs were my first one
If its the middle one, if anyone can give me some pointers for going against a daemon army with 2 soul grinders (apparently invincible now, even against a monolith, according to this guy), Nurgle and mainly Nurgle troops that just run into CC asap and massacre me
Well, sweeping advances and CC really do kill us badly. But played right there's plenty of CHEESY armies we can field that are just painful! 15 destroyers, 3 monoliths, Deceiver and some warriors would be BRUTAL! Destroyers and monoliths are probably the strongest units in my opinion. Problem is, who has 3 monoliths and 15 destroyers. Also this list is very cheesy. If you go for a balanced list, yes Necrons are tougher to play. Especially since their benefit (Gauss was nerfed badly) and they weren't meant to fall back so easily Ld10 was meant to keep them in the thick, but now they die horribly since they lose CC very often!
To your question, have I shelved them? No, technically they're the only army I have, so I don't have a choice currently. But then again, I like a challenge. I've beat my buddies Demons and his black templar maybe 1 win, 1 tie, 2 losses. So it's not like taking candy from a baby. Just my 2 cents.
"There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
Necrons are deffinately still playable. And very much WORTH playing. As an army we've been weakened but not into unuseability. Sweeping advance is a major weakness, the gauss nerf isn't so bad though really, we just require a coulpe dedicated tank-killers for the first time. (I now field 2 heavy destroyers as common practice)
To protect from combat is now a more proactive project. Tomb spyders are a GREAT combat deterrent, as are scarabs. Flayed ones work alright. Also being intelligent in your unit placement is more important.
Use the new rules to your advantage Warriors are tough out in the open (still) give them COVER and they're unbelievably tough, and also get an advantage against some assaults (offensive grenades ftl)
And scarabs as cover-screens etc.
I think 5th ed was a bit of a wash for Necrons. Yes Gauss was nerfed a bit, and 'Liths aren't as unbreakable as they were, but increased cover saves and lack of sweeping advances gave Necrons (as with all short ranged shooty armies) a boost.
For objective based games the Warrior heavy lists with 'Lith pulling these guys around the battlefield should be great for claiming objectives.
The 'Dex definatly needs a upgrade as all competitive Necron armies look pretty similar and can be pretty boring to play after a while, IMO.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Sweeping advance isn't gone, consolidation into squads is. So CC armies can't bulldoze shooting armies anymore, which helps our shooting list but makes wraith-lists nearly inconceivable.
Also, I forgot to mention that the "rear armor" rules allows wraiths to become rather potent tank-hunters, which I feel is a more effective place for them.
Vampire Counts Progress Log [W:2 D:1 L:1]
The gauss nerf does suck, but a dedicated anti-tank unit (heavy destroyers, maybe?) will work nicely. Also, most armour in 40k still has a weaker rear side (I only know of two vehicles which don't, and one of them's on OUR side!), so a zippy squad of destroyers ought to make quick work of them, and the "flying circus" (lord with veil of darkness + immortals) is still enough to ruin somebody's day.
Also, you couldn't really glance the Monolith to death before, but now you REALLY can't do it! That thing is still a beast that is just DARING your opponent to go after it. Only the most experienced veterans aren't at least a little intimidated by it.
Regarding CC, the bad news is that scarabs don't hold units up as well as they used to. Time was, they could tarpit a unit the entire game, but now you have to pick and choose your targets, and maybe add a base or two to your unit, but you can get essentially the same results, unless you happen to be stupid like me and try to stop a Dark Angels command squad with a character in it. Sheesh! BIG mistake (shudder)!
The good news is that many units that were useless before are now getting a second look, most notably Tomb Spyders. Put a single scarab base with it, and you now have a unit with quite a few wounds tougher than the average MEQ. Put 'em in front of your warriors and you can (I think) give them a cover save AND act as a not-too-shabby countercharge unit.
As to the comments you heard in the store, well, first off, if you've liked playing with the necrons up until now, don't let some loudmouth know-it-all tell you different.
Sorry to sound cranky, but I can't stand it when someone says something is unbeatable, indestructible, broken, blah, blah. Nothing is "invincible" in 40k. Let me repeat that:
Nothing is invincible.
The fact that he thinks his stuff is, well, that's just an invitation to show him otherwise. As to specific advice, that's kinda tough without seeing your list, and I have yet to fight daemons, but I'd say fight fire with fire, and bring your OWN daemon. The C'Tan is tough as nails, and even if it dies it takes almost anything within range with it.
You also still have the gauss rule, which could, with enough massed firepower, take down his "invincible" unit. Force enough saves and eventually anything will fall. Works for the Imperial Guard. Also, hit him with the particle whip. Yeah, it ties up the 'lith for a turn, but hey, part of the function of big things like his monster is to draw fire. No way outta that one.
Depending on the focus of the rest of his army, you might try to "bait" him. This is dangerous, and I have yet to try it, but getting into CC with him with the Deceiver, then warping away with a LOT of guns standing by leaves him in the open and staring down your barrels. This would work well if you've knocked him down to one or two wounds.
Also, consider that his big monsters, while I don't know this, I'm guessing they can't take objectives. Unless he's charging your warriors, ignore him?
Hi - thanks for all your comments!
I really love my necrons. I know they all look the same, but i like the whole fluff that comes with them and how great the look en-masse. Plus, i know that they arent the hardest army in the world to paint, but the latest squad ive done looks really good and rusted
The army im building up (ive mentioned it on another thread is) 1580 pts:
Necron Lord (Resurrection Orb, Veil of Darkness & Warscythe)
50x Troops (20/15/15))
I also have a pile of scarabs and 5 destroyers for a 1750 or 1800 game. My strategy (although i havent tried it yet), is to have all the troops behind the monolith and then let them advance behind it. When they get in range either have them and/or the destroyers (depending on the pts) jump out on the flanks, avoiding CC where possible. I would also use the scarabs to try and tie up some squads that could do damage to the monolith.
The problem is that the world and his wife around here play demons and they can just out-flank me or wipe me out in CC. Plus, i think my dice may be cursed as whenever i need to roll higher than a 1 i will just get 30 1s or something lol
I hear that the new codex is out in the next 6 months, so i can hold out till then as i only play a game every couple of weeks and (as i said) i have a few other armies.
I'd break those 50 into 5 squads of 10. ALlows you to spread your fire, and if caught in sweeping advances, not lose a HUGE squad! 50 warriors seems like an awful lot, but it would be an interesting turn when they get into rapid fire (which usually means assaulted next turn )
"There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
yeah, i went for the 20 because someone suggested that i could put them in with the lord and use them all with the VOD.
50 is a lot, but its good (im guessing) for concentrated fire and also helps against phase out