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years ago i played chaos marines, then i traded them for warmachine models and started playin that. now im looking back at this game thinkin it looks real fun but i dont know much about what each faction is good at. can anyone spare some help?
i really like the looks of all the nid models and the carnifex just gives me warm fuzzies all over. but i was reading on these forums and ran across a post of someone saying that in the new edition that the orks can "out nid the nids" could someone explain to me why this is? or i guess all im trying to figure out is what do tyranids do that is so special? what do we get that no one else does? or what are we better at than anyone else?
after perusing the codex (i think it was 4th edition, is that current?) i saw that we can customize all our guys to be good at different things so i guess we are flexible, but how effective are we?
i was thinking about a list with a bunch of genestealers and a CC tyrant, backed up with as many fex's as i can fit, my first idea was to have beasty CC fex's but i have read that they aren't as effective that way and that they are best with two devourers, is this true? would they be as effective with a barbed strangler? is it worth it to buy all the armor/toughness/regenerating buffs for them? also why dont we have any unique characters like the other factions? and where did old one eye and red terror go? those were some of my favorite things way back when i used to play and one of my freinds played the nids.
i know thats a lot of questions but, inquiring minds want to know. if anyone can answer even one or two of these questions it will be appreciated, thanks guys.
Firstly, nobody can out-nid the nids. Yes, Orks have a better horde unit in the Ork Boy, but that means very little in the grand scheme of things. The Orks do their thing, and we eat them. As far as things that noone else can do, how about fielding 8 MCs, or 45 small blast templates for 1100 points? Things we're good at include CC, shooting, morale, and eating. Honestly, the only thing you can't run with nids is an armored company.
Genestealer shock is a fun army. I would recommend running fexes with Venom Cannons for some anti-tank. It is true that Devourers can be nasty on fexes (though I prefer the Barbed Strangler in the elite spot) and that CC fexes generally don't perform well. As far as defensive upgrades go, it varies from player to player and what kind of army you run. I personally don't run them.
The nids simply do not need special characters. We are an unstoppable force of nature. The swarm is a single consciousness bent on assimilating all others. Individuality is superfluous. The mighty hive tyrant can crush any tiny being foolish enough to brandish his flag in the face of relentless death.
so heres the thing, i want run a bunch of monstrous creatures but it seems like stuff like lascannons or meltaguns are too easily accessible to lots of other factions and all my carnifexs would bite the dust waaay too fast. do we have any answer to those things? or a way to avoid them somehow?
also i noticed that our guns suck at armor piercing, so how do we deal with a bunch of space marines with 3+ saves? everyone seems to be talking about how good the fex with 2 devourers is and yeah it seems good but if your against space marines he will only kill like 2 or 3 a turn, whats up with that?
marines seem kinda broken...
1) They are extremily flexible. You can use the nids in a few ways. 1: you can go all CC, with the gaunts assaulting the troops, distracting them and making them *wear out*. this also means that the troops can not attack the elites in the army (anything apart from gaunts). Then use troops with wings and raverners to deep strike and take out any pockets of resistance. using genestealers to outflank and devistate the artillery in the backround. Use the Carnifexes to smash through the enemy, clearing paths for elites to get to more "pockets of resistance". This can be overwhealming for the opponent, because most of the army is in CC with an endless swarm of gaunts, the artillery is getting destroyed by CC fexes, and the back of the army is infested with Genestealers taking out elite squads.
2: They can go all shooty, pulling the army to pieces before they reach you. The great thing about this is that unlike Tau for instance, the shooty troops can take down the opponent in CC (ussually).
3: They can also go mixed, with basic troops in CC, while the shooty troops just stand back and take out unengaged troops, as well as providing back up for troops that are getting massecered.
2) they have many veriaty of probabilaties. this means that if one enter a Tournement, you will see Tau and think all ranged, enter CC, they get massecered, or Guard, many troops, destoy their moral. but with nids, you never kno. it can be swarmy, shooty, or nidzilla. the only army that is able to do something like this are the space marines.
1) the 5th edition of Warhammer 40K is heavy relient on troops, and because our only good troop is the Genestealer, we are a bit of trouble (a bit, every army got ther + and -'s). Unlike other armies (Space Marines, have plenty of good troops), we are relient on Elites and Monstrous creatures for our "punch".
Yes, devourer armed Fexes are very good. The problem with CC fexes was that they never got into CC. But with the new Running rule, fexes can cover 7 - 12" in one turn, which is quite alot. Your army idea is quite good, make sure that you have enough genestealers to last the game (i.e over 12). you can field 6 fexes in a game, 3 elites and 3 heavy support. the Elites can easily be devourer armed, mixed (shooty and CC), or pure CC. the Heavy support fexes need to be able to take out tanks, i.e, they have to be sniper fexes or similer. The regenerate in most cases is a waste of points, while the toughness is only for the meanest of fexes. The Extended carapace is worth it, but only on Fexes, Tyrants, Broodlords, Genestealers and Warriors. This is becuase when one puts Extended carapace on them, they can below the average AP level. I hope this is all correct, and have a nice time playing warhammer 40K
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One thing to add. Since our shooting pretty much has no effective AP, we never have to worry about our enemies being in cover or not. Just shoot them!
There's really two dependable ways for nids to cause wounds.
1) Attack first with lots of attacks that deny armor saves. (MC, rending.) This is usually reserved for CC armies. Very nerfed in 5th edition.
2) Overwhelm an enemy with a high volume of fire, enough that they'll fail armor saves. (Usually an all-shooting list.)
The devourer fills #2 very well. When you twin-link them you're rerolling missed shots and failed wounds. Add in that the dev fires 2x shots and you've got the potential for a high volume of fire.
For a real-world example, here's a "typical" turn of focused devourer shooting from me onto any single unit:
1 dakka-flyrant: 12 shots w/ rerolls to hit and wound.
1-2 dakkafexes: 8 shots each w/ rerolls to hit and wound.
3 dakka-warriors: 12 shots w/ rerolls to hit and wound.
That's 32-40 devourer shots. On average I'm wounding with 75% of them, so that's 24-30 saves the unit has to make. So if we go with an armor-save of 3, you'll get an average of 33% failed saves. (Or 7-10 wounds). A ten-man unit of marines won't stand up to this amount of firepower for long.
The above doesn't even take into account the rest of your army! For a 2000-point list, the above isn't even half of the firepower I have available.
Last edited by TamCoan; November 19th, 2008 at 15:09.
Lascannons and such are a problem for nidzilla lists, but the simple fact is they're not likely to have enough of them, especially when you use cover and target the big guns first. I only run five MCs at 1500 points, and I've always had at least two at the end. This is because I take Guards for my Tyrants, and I've got Venom Cannons on my fexes for neutralizing las-toting vehicles. If you know your weakness, you can compensate for it.
Also, Tam is absolutely right. Nids have the ability to put out lots of shots, which is bad for any army. When you put the law of probability on your side, good things happen. I would also like to note that Deathspitters can also bring an impressive amount of wounds to the table.
Another option for elite fexes is the Barbed Strangler/Talons combo. It gives them some S8 shooty goodness while relentlessly approaching the enemies lines. This one's my personal favorite, but maybe that's because I love the way the model looks.
Yeah, we haven't even gotten into talking about barbed stranglers and deathspitters! With the new template rules, these guns are well worth taking now. I'm finding a shooty list with devs, spitters, VC and BS to work very well. Throw in spinegaunts and you have lots of guns!