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  1. #1
    The Keenest of Eyes The Hawk's Avatar
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    Psycannons... ... ... What more can I say?

    Greetings fellow 40k minds

    Alright, I have heard about Psycannons before and how they ignore Invulnerable Saves and Armor Saves (correct me if I am wrong). Now, I figured that they weren't going to be a big problem...

    ...that was until I saw what they do in person. At Strength 6, they can seriously, and I mean SERIOUSLY seriously, screw us up and throw us in the garbage. A fellow DE player was using a Dark Eldar Archon in a 2000 match, pimped to the max, including a Shadow Field, when the Incubi and himself were targeted by a bunch of Grey Knights with Psycannons. Now, I don't know about you but when 5 Psycannon bolts go arching through them like moths to flame, you would faint too. That is what happened to the DE player. The Incubi were shattered to absolute pieces, and the Archon was left in a smouldering pile of ash.

    WTF! Now that absolutely left him as a dead stick in the middle of the ocean. He eventually lost because of that, and everyone around watching was still trying to work out what happened.

    And because of that, I am at a loss. How does a DE player protect their HQs against Psycannons? And how is the most lethal and efficent way to take them out, preferably in the first turn. I was thinking Lances, but what if I do not have first turn? Just the thought of it makes me... makes me... (thump on the ground).

    If there are any players who have seen a good tactic, or have battled them before, it would be good to hear from them, as my Grey Knights opponent is thinking about them...

    Fly High!

    Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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  3. #2
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    Long time lurker, first time poster, allo.

    As I understand it psycannons only ignore invulnerable saves being specifically designed to be an anti daemon weapon. They are AP4 which isn't enough to get through the Incubi regular armour save. So your incubi should have got saves against them, but if your lord was on his own he would have been in deep trouble.

    Having looked up the stats for psycannons the sheer amount of shots they can bring to bear would probably have been enough to finish the squad off armour saves or not. Having not played against Grey Knights myself and being a relative newbie to Dark Eldar my tactical advice is probably lacking, but I'd recommend bringing a disintegrator or three to bear on the grey knight unit if you can (thinking a ravager), or snipe a couple off with dark lances. If you're feeling brave, stick a horrorfex on a raider and see if you can't get close enough to use it, then assault them with something nasty. Unless Grey Knights are fearless, in which case ignore the bit about the horrorfex.
    Last edited by Malaghast; November 21st, 2008 at 11:18.

  4. #3
    Nightlord frozencore's Avatar
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    Grey Knights are fearless. Grey knights also have shrouding, which works like crappy night fight, so shooting from far away might be a waste.

    Psycannons do not ignore armor saves(as was posted above) they are only ap4. Psycannons are also very expensive, as they cost as much as the Grey Knight wielding it! So more psycannons means less bodies for you to deal with. Don't let that player forget that having a psycannon on their Grey Knight means they get rid of their awesome s6 close combat weapon(part of the exorbitant cost of a GK), so they are back to only 1 attack at s4.

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    Ouch. Pesky marines and their special rules.


    Hawkuli out of interest do you usually put your Archon/Retinue in a raider? My usual approach is to stick the HQ unit in a raider, hide it behind the biggest piece of terrain I can find then play hide and seek until I spot a choice target.

  6. #5
    Superflat Monogram Sayomi Akimoto's Avatar
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    How do you deal with a psycannon?

    Well, as already mentioned a psycannon is a horrendously expensive weapon in a horrendously expensive army. To that end you should (And probably already are) outnumbering them Grey Knights.

    In conjunction with the vast speed DE utilize, your best bet would be to zip over and concentrate assaulting. As much as common sense would dictate shooting such a dangerous weapon to death with long range, high strength armor ignoring weapons, the shrouding should put a damper on that. Mid-range shooting will be little better, as they just spam storm bolter fire like a drunk man pissing on the third rail. You will be going before Grey Knights, and for that reason alone assault them.

    Grey Knights are exceptional generalists; whatever they can't out assault, they shoot to death, whatever they can't shoot to death they assault.

    Play to your strength and overwhelm their flexibility until it shatters in half. Any points spent on Psycannons/Incenerators are more points spent on being shooty, which benefits you in the assault phase.

    Now, as to who can carry the psycannon? Grey Knights in Power Armor, Terminators and Inquisitors. Grey Knights in Power Armor are probably the worst psycannon bearers, as their ability to move and shoot is hampered by their 18" psycannon range and they lose out on what made them special: Their two attacks at S6. Terminators are second best, as they can move and shoot, whilst simultaneously retaining their S6 power weapons, but is countered by their cost of 71/91 pts. Inquisitors are probably the best psycannon, as they can be tooled out to be fire support squads or IC psycannon bearers and are the cheapest out of the bunch.

    From this information you should be able to more easily prioritize your targets and decide which psycannons will actually affect the outcome of the game and which ones are placed so inefficiently as to worry about later.

    As for your HQ, hide them or keep them as cheap as possible. Once they're stuck in combat it should be smooth sailing. Until then use screens of more expendable units.

    In general, treat a psycannon equipd squad like you'd treat a SM tactical squad.

    TL;DR: Assault them. They can't kill ALL of you by the time you get there (Turn 2? Sometimes Turn 1? Totally doable. Either way you will take casualties.) so you can usually kill off psycannon bearers quite early. Usually though, psycannons aren't as big of a threat as they sound. If your foe is going with maxed Psycannons, they probably bearly have any bodies on the field.

    Bah, dunno if what anything I said even helped.

    Either way, have fun. They're all psykers, so I suppose your DE will love taking a few home.

  7. #6
    The Keenest of Eyes The Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malaghast View Post
    Hawkuli out of interest do you usually put your Archon/Retinue in a raider?
    Personally, I do, however, I wasn't referring to myself in the OP. I have not played against the GK myself, and was only asking for opinions from others. Still, good for asking. My plan would be what you say, but have a Ravager for support tagging along, and sniping as many as I can with the DLs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malaghast View Post
    Unless Grey Knights are fearless, in which case ignore the bit about the horrorfex
    Grey Knights are Fearless, and so Horrofexes aren't the way to go here. Thinking more on the lines of a Night Shield, or Scythes (maybe not the best idea with the latter).

    Quote Originally Posted by frozencore View Post
    Psycannons do not ignore armor saves(as was posted above) they are only ap4.
    Sorry about that. My GK friend at school apparently told me otherwise.

    On a side note, the Incubi were slaughtered because of 8 Psycannons corruscating over them.

    I also have another question, if you will permit me. Since the Shadow Field does not get to roll for the Inv. Sv, if the model manages to survive, will it be able to still use it, or does this only occur if the Sv. rolls a 1? Possibly a pretty stupid question, but I just want to make sure. I'm leaning towards it can still use it.

    Anyway, if there is any other advice, I am all ear's. PLEASE?

    Fly High!
    Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  8. #7
    Junior Member A.T.'s Avatar
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    Psycannons don't ignore cover saves, so keeping your head down or using an infantry screen works well.

    Purchasing them for power armoured marines is very costly for the GK player as mentioned - they cost as much as a whole extra GK, they remove the GK's str 6 close combat weapon and their extra true grit attack, and they can only be used at 18" if the GK moves.
    Psycannon marines are much much less scary in an assault if you can get to them.
    (These limitations don't apply to GK terminators)

    Be careful with light vehicles - if the GK can't shoot the troops they'll target the vehicles instead and psycannons totally wreck low AV targets.

    All I can really advise is to screen expensive units with less expensive units and remember just how much the GK player is paying for each body on the table. They arn't individually any tougher than a regular marine, but a psycannon guy costs more than three times as much.
    Shrouding is only an issue if you try to shoot in from outside the psycannon's range (and even then it's only about 50/50...).

    One tactic could be to keep them on the move. Normally GK squads are happy to shuffle up and down the table firing stormbolters, but this doesn't work well with psycannons (half range when moving). GKs also have problems assaulting into cover or fortifications and have their hands tied somewhat when moving to take objectives - which can expose them to attack.

    As a note - though all GK squads look the same, anything with a lot of psycannons in is a heavy choice and not scoring. Anything that deep strikes and shoots you in the back is likewise nonscoring.


    Edit : 8 psycannons? No, your toast. Didn't stand a chance. Not a hope in hell.
    But the absolute minimum cost of those pyscannon units (two lots of 4 psycannons and a justicar) is two heavy slots and 500 points...

    I'm not sure how an archon would survive to use his field again - they are only T3 right? (i'm a DH player, not a DE player). Though I guess it's a valid question against psybolts (S4 AP4) - but no-one ever uses those. I've only browsed the rules and I recall it failed after the archon took an unsaved wound (so goodbye field) but i've not got the book so don't take my word for it.
    Last edited by A.T.; November 21st, 2008 at 12:50.

  9. #8
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkuli View Post

    I also have another question, if you will permit me. Since the Shadow Field does not get to roll for the Inv. Sv, if the model manages to survive, will it be able to still use it, or does this only occur if the Sv. rolls a 1? Possibly a pretty stupid question, but I just want to make sure. I'm leaning towards it can still use it.
    You didn't fail a save, you were denied a save, so by that the shadowfield should still work.

    [ediit] As for GK in general, incubi and ravagers against GK are likely beating a baby suffering from down's syndrome.

    Archon and incubi will eat anything in CC and a disintegrator ravager will eat anything at range. If the GK player putas down a land raider, just take a naked ravager (both the lance ravager and disintegrator ravager cost less combined than the LR so meh) and you'll obliterate anything their guns are pointed at.
    Last edited by The_Outsider; November 21st, 2008 at 13:07.

  10. #9
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    [QUOTE=Hawkuli;1303330]

    I also have another question, if you will permit me. Since the Shadow Field does not get to roll for the Inv. Sv, if the model manages to survive, will it be able to still use it, or does this only occur if the Sv. rolls a 1? Possibly a pretty stupid question, but I just want to make sure. I'm leaning towards it can still use it.
    [QUOTE]

    also, a psycannon would inflict insta-death on any shadowfield user than isn't a heme

    Grots/SoB/CSP/AWN/DE

  11. #10
    Hi, Mom! Tutankhankh's Avatar
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    Charge 'em. 2 Wyches cost less than 1 GK, even without Psycannon. On average, the GK will kill 1 Wych every 4 rounds, while the Wyches will kill 1 GK every 5 rounds. If he's totin' a 'cannon, you get 4 Wyches, and he gets bumped up to killing 1 Wych every 8 rounds.
    No.

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