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Right, i like the Tau..
but, i dont like kroot/vespid
i think they look stupid etc etc
i was wondering, is an all-tau army smart? or is it best to include some kroot/vespid?
MEAT IS MURDER, And murder tastes pretty good! :D
If you like Tau and dont like Vespid and Kroot dont use Vespid and Kroot.
Vespid are much despised everywher due to the fact their meant to be anti marine according to GW but their very short ranged combined with their poor armour save means there not great at it.
Kroot n the otherhand are very much loved, however if you play with them and you don't like them your not really gonna care much about trying to find the best way to use them so they wont be as great.
Youve eliminated 2 units out of 14 no real big deal youve got 11 units to fill 11 spaces since youll be taking Firewarriors as your troops.
They are not despisded everywhere yea alot of people on this forum do not like them but i reckon if they are used along with a correct tactic they are brilliant for guarding your tau for assaults by jumping forward and shooting first and then if necessary a charge
Dont get me wrong i'm just stating what this board pretty much thinks, I like vespid personally, they have a lovely uniqueness.
The bottom line is if he doesnt take vespid he wont miss them too much.
An all Tau army works just fine, until recently that's what I used.
Kroot can add a nice dimension to your army and are a great bargain but you do not need them to build a very competative list. So go for it.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
kroot aren't end all be all, but a couple of full squads of them coming under 170 points each is pretty nuts when you consider what they can bog down.
I think if you made your firewarriors more mobile it would lessen the "need" for kroot, so to speak.
Greetings all, relatively new tau player, at least Started a few months ago, have won several games, and lost several more. Hah.
Anywho, I feel the same, I don't want any damn aliens with my Men! so i have chosen the path of O'Shovah or Farsight.
Fluff aside, I have this weird story in my head about how he came to be, (alot of 'Screw you Dad, I'm moving to California and starting a band!', then rocking out air guitar with the dawn blade) So i just liked his charector a whole bit.
Anywho, I currently run a Farsight army, of about 16 xv8s (bodyguard, Elite choice, 2ndHQ, And Farsight included, this is legal and does not break the force organization chart). 3 broadsides, Hammerhead, full sniperdrone team( 9drones,3 spotters) full stealth team, And 3 troops of 12 fw w/devilfish.
Plan on building some Remoras to keep as Fast attack. Don't much care for Pathies or Piranahs.
Drones thrown into the mix, And i need a few more troops. Working to apoc sized games. Which is all rules aside anyway.
Kroot be damned Man! Troops and Human Auxilaries (No rules saying Farsight can't have them :-P ) are all the meat shields i need for my Xv8's. For the greater good!
Haven't totalled the full amount yet into an army list, Just got my last broadside, sniperdrone and xv8 squad. But was at around 2300, looking to get about 4k. Need troops!
Last edited by SquidTau; January 4th, 2009 at 15:10.
Mirage: Vespid may not be "despised" everywhere but they are pretty much universally regarded as a second rate unit. No unit is entirely useless and uses can be found for any unit no matter how poor. Thing is though it is silly to use a unit when other units are available that do the job so much better for cheaper and without crippling rules liabilities.
I myself have tried a couple of times to create interest in the Vespid to see if a use can be found and pretty much every time the same result rears its head. Vespid are very very very hard to utilise effectively.
If you want to create a balanced list that you want to use to meet all comers the Vespid are pretty much a no go unit.
True enough if you play opponents were the use of Vespid as a lure and finisher unit (usually with Kroot funny enough) works then go for it; however use the tactic a few times and I guarantee it will no longer be effective. As soon as your opponent realises just how weak, expensive, tactically limited and cover reliant the Vespid are then it is simply not worth taking them.
Some members of other forums (one in particular is really guilty of this trait but shall remain nameless because it is not the forum that is at fault but certain members) always try to appear more knowledgeable and hip by claiming that certain units are the units that "knowledgeable" players use ( that does not include you Mirage). Let them delude themselves for the sake of ego and hipness, I use one method to find out which units work and that is playing them. I have only ever seen one example of true revelation regarding a maligned or apparently useless unit and that was Shadowsun and her Drones (Tonka produced a fabulous tactica about her over at ATT). Other than that one example I have never seen any article on this or any forum persuade me that Vespid (or any other unit that is less than desirable, even my own threads) are a worthwhile choice given the fact of their cost and the fact that you are going to lose another more useful unit or war-gear choices etc to take them.
Kroot on the other hand are friggin awesome. They have so many uses and nice rules that they can be used in so many ways it makes it hard for your opponent to get a handle on them.
For instance if you use the Kroot to assault a lot and the opponent gets wise to it, then simply use them as an infiltrating harassing unit. When he get wise to that use them as a lure unit, when he get wise to that use em as a pill box unit to deter movement to an area of the field. When he gets used to that go back to assault and when he gets used to that again simply use a mixture of tactics and confuse the hell out of him, I guarantee that if you use Kroot to the full effect that their rules allow, your opponent will never get a handle on them. On top of that they are cheap and can now use transports.
Place a unit of 10 Kroot and 8 Hounds on an objective and watch as your opponent tries to shift the 118pt cheap as chips unit.
I do not care what models look like if they perform as well as Kroot do. If they looked like the Elephant man's ugly sister after she ran into a brick wall at a reasonable speed, I would still use em.
An all Tau army is easily capable of holding its own and can make for a nice pure Tau list. However I would not disregard Kroot simply because they look bad (according to you that is, I think they are great characterful models that add colour to the bland Tau model range)
Kroot offer so much tactical flexibility to the Tau player and are so cheap yet effective that I consider anyone who dismisses them out of hand without using them as slightly crazy . Actually you should never dismiss any unit without using it and that includes Vespid, because quite simply you may play with the Vespid and find they suit your style and opponents. I would advise proxying them first though because odds are you will not end up using them and they are expensive models (£'s).
Bottom line is the Kroot are a very good unit. I take two units of 10 Kroot and 8 Hounds in my 2000pt list and they always serve me well. If you want advice on how to use em I (and others with a plethora of Kroot experience) will oblige you and you can proxy the unti until you decide if they are worthwhile.
By the way Sgtsinner, I love the avatar, what the hell is it?
I consider that Kroot give any Tau army a certain edge that the army lacks without them. My advice to you would be to work out your ideal all-Tau army and play with it a few times until you feel comfortable with it's strengths and weaknesses. Then drop out just one squad of Fire Warriors and try a squad of Kroot instead, proxying them if necessary. I'd be surprised if you find that this simple change doesn't give you a lot more options and, given that even the best-laid plans seldom survive first contact with the enemy, having more options is always handy.
~ Raven ~
yeah, You're right, But the Tau aren't considered alien to themselves. (yeah, yeah, but Human Auxillaries... Well you got me..)
I just don't like bugs, and i don't want carnivorous Mudokons' in my army!
Anywho, The whole fluff thing is a bit silly. But i guess i need to get used to it.
Bottom Line. The humans have brainslugs to keep em in line with the Tau, The Kroot and the Vespid can all eat one.