Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I'm looking for some help here. I know that a dead lord with an orb does not provide Orb protection and obviously the LO community does, but the players that I play against do not and I need some help convincing them. I found in the LO FAQ where it says this but I'm wondering if someone can provide me with the reasoning behind it with maybe some specific references to GW FAQ/Codex. I was unable to convince them with just the codex tonight so I'm reaching out to the community at large for some help here. Thank you all very much for information you can give me on this.
In the Necron 5th Ed FAQ, there's the following two rulings:There's no direct answer to your question, however, the first of those two is the closest to an official answer. Infering from the fact that all conditions are checked when the model drops, any model killed prior to the Lord model would recieve Res Orb benefits. (Obviously this would include the Lord himself too, but that's also included in the Lord's and the Res Orb text - the codex very is explicit on that.)Q. If a unit of Necrons falls back after taking
casualties, how best to keep track of whether
they are effected by a resurrection orb or not?
A. A Necron unit falls back, having been beaten in
close combat by a unit with power weapons.
However, there is a resurrection orb nearby. To
keep things simple, when the casualties are
suffered, assess whether they are in range of the
resurrection orb. If they are, lay them down and
move them with the unit. If they are not in range
of the resurrection orb, remove them entirely.
You will then know how many WBB rolls to make
at the start of your next turn. The same logic
applies if the Necrons fall back after taking
Q. When is the range of the resurrection orb
checked? At the time the Necron becomes
damaged or at the start of the turn when WBB is
A. Check range when a Necron becomes
damaged. If at least one (undamaged) model in
the unit is within 6" of a resurrection orb at that
point, leave the damaged Necron on the board.
Otherwise, immediately remove it from the table
as a casualty.
The short answer is that all checks except the 6" range to the same model type are checked when the model drops - that one check is made when the model is attempting its WBB roll. (Monolith teleportation excluded - later in the FAQ, it simply states that the models attempting Monolith junk use exactly the same conditions they had at the start of turn, whatever they are.)
Again, the argument here is that WBB is a by-model check unless there's a specific thing that says otherwise (Res Orb affecting whole units, for example), and because of this, when the model drops, all checks are made as to the conditions of whether or not it'll get its WBB roll. If the Lord is dead (or on the ground - WBB rules itself refer to "when the model dies, lay it down", etc), it obviously is not providing the protection of its wargear. If he wants to make that case, tell him your dead Hive Tyrant is still providing Synapse protection for the army. It's the same argument, there's no rule anywhere that says dead models still provide wargear protection.
Thus, any model that died prior to the lord gets Res Orb bonuses, any model that dies after the Lord does not.
And, on a final note, even though I think WBB is more tactically sound, I cannot wait for them to change it to FNP in the next Codex and be done with this rules BS.
Last edited by SMann233; November 27th, 2008 at 04:27.
The problem is they believe that the lord's res orb still provides benefits even AFTER the lord has died and is waiting for his WBB roll. This makes it difficult for me to work with as logic suggests that he should not provide it but they say that he does because the orb is still there. Should I refer to the fact that they are treated as battlefield debris? I'm kinda stuck as to where to go on this one. It's kind of frustrating.
Do Dead SM battle standard bearers still provide their bonuses? After all, the standard might still be there. Do special characters such as Skarbrand still provide their ranged affects? Tell him to stop being rediculous. Wargear are items that have to be actively used by their models, which kinda requires them not to be molten slag.
Honestly, this is the only situation in which this could even come up, GW has never put out a ruling on it, it's just assumed that common sense would override. What I'd do, if possible, would be to call the GW Rules line and record the conversation/write it down and their exact response. We all know they're not exactly reliable in their rulings, but that should quiet the senseless arguments of this kind of person.
Here's another item you can use to convince him:Again, seems obvious, but so does the original question.Q. Do Necrons that are down and awaiting an
opportunity to make their We’ll Be Back
(henceforth WB roll count as Necrons of the
same type for determining whether a WBB roll
can be made?
A. No they do not count.
Dead models on the ground awaiting WBB do not count for ANYTHING. This is one example from the current FAQ.
Well you have to pay attention to if the lord died before all the other necrons really. OR if the Necron lord resses first (dunno if that's legit but that's how I work it) since i tend to get him up before the rest of the squad.
Eh, like I said - based on the new FAQ, you check whether or not there's an orb around when the model drops, rather than when it's time to make WBB rolls. The only thing the Codex itself specifies to check when making the WBB rolls is the 6" same model rule.
The real issue with this situation is that it's not as cut and dry as the Hive Tyrant or the SM Standard in the fact that the Lord hasn't been removed from the board yet, whereas the other two *should* have been due to an early death. Once the Lord has been removed it's obviously not granting the Res Orb protection because it's now in the same condition as the Hive Tyrant and Standard Bearer... completely dead without any chance of coming back.
And the problem with bringing up downed Necron models not counting for WBB is that the only thing that affects is being able to get WBB because of having a similar model within 6". It's a different piece to the WBB puzzle, and I'm not really convinced that my Necron Lord not counting as a similar model nullifies his passive wargear; all that does is convince me my Necron Lord doesn't count as a similar model for any other Lords I might have (for what that's worth).
Don't get me wrong, I can understand the ruling that downed wargear is non-functional... but I'm unconvinced that the passive nature of the Orb has been nullified because it's in the possession of a model that hasn't been ruled a casualty yet. Feel free to dig around or call up GW, I'm curious how exactly the Orb functions when the Lord is down. I'll keep looking at it myself as well, it's something of interest...
Usually my Lord is the last thing to die if I can help it, so for the most part I'm fine with either verdict. I just enjoy playing Devil's Advocate I suppose...
Last edited by fatal_cake; November 27th, 2008 at 21:31.
In the particular situation that I came across the Lord died during HIS combat and he's claiming the orb for a squad that is now dying in MY combat phase. I've sent off an e-mail rules question as they say that's the only way to ask those. Supposed to get one in three days. I'll post the response when I get it and the message too if people want it.