Inventing new rules at 1:30am - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Age
    8
    Posts
    28
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Inventing new rules at 1:30am

    I was having a chat with a friend as he was giving me a lift home last night and we started chucking some ideas around for Dark Eldar. This was partly fuelled by their appearance in a recent Black Library publication which shall remain nameless as to prevent spoilers. The upshot of it was the Dark Eldar were described at being very adept at hiding in the shadows and almost having the shadows at their command. Which lead to this:

    Night Shields:
    Instead of granting the extra 6" distance from an enemy shooting at it (which half the time is utterly negated by missile launchers, railguns and the like), the vehicle equipped with this would basically inflict the Night Fighting special rule on any ranged attack targetting it. We didn't touch on wether this could potentially be negated by searchlights or other equipment specifically designed to combat Night Fighting. I suppose in the name of balance thats how it potentially could work.

    Cover Saves:
    All current armour saves for Warriors, Wyches, Haemonulae, Grotesques and Scourges would become cover saves, which would then revert back to normal armour (or in the wyches case, invulnerable) saves in close combat, a bit like the Lictor. The Talos, Jetbikes and HQ units would remain largely unchanged, but if the lord lost their shadow field their remaining armour save would be a cover save. I don't see incubi as particularly stealthy and shadowy as they have the heaviest armour in the entire army.

    Just some ideas.

    Last edited by Malaghast; November 28th, 2008 at 12:28.
    Dark Eldar:
    Win 2. Draw 1. Losses 11.
    I'm still learning. :)

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    boo
    boo is offline
    Senior Member boo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Glasgow
    Age
    27
    Posts
    261
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    30 (x1)

    Some interesting ideas, however, to be honest, i would prefer the -6" in most situations, though with the rise of thud guns & lootas, night fight would be usefull,

    the armour = cover..... way too powerfull, a basic warrior would have the equivelent of a 5++ from shooting, which means they could survive hits from a demolisher cannon, so think that one is too far

    interesting concepts though

    Grots/SoB/CSP/AWN/DE

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Age
    8
    Posts
    28
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    I'm becoming less fond of night shields as my opponent is wising up to the fact that a missile launcher/lascannon with 48" range isn't hindered too much by becoming a 42" range weapon on a 4 foot wide table.

    Yes, on reflection a lightly armoured warrior being able to survive something a space marine couldn't would not be very consistent. Maybe chucking in a vulnerability to template and blast weapons to even it out as its technically indirect fire.
    Last edited by Malaghast; November 28th, 2008 at 13:22.
    Dark Eldar:
    Win 2. Draw 1. Losses 11.
    I'm still learning. :)

  5. #4
    The Keenest of Eyes The Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Soaring through Darkness
    Posts
    672
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    190 (x3)

    These are some heavy-duty ideas, however, they would give the DE ALL the advantage, and GW is not for one army over another.

    Night Shields I feel are just too valuable not to be left to be left out. In the Codex, it specifically states that "The Night Shield does not affect whether the vehicle can be seen in a Night Fight." Therefore, if something has been stated by them, then you can be sure that they will stick to it. Besides, 6" is much better, as I tend to keep as far as I can where I will be out of LoS by the Heavy Weapons, but in range of something that is really ticking me off.

    As for the covers saves for the units, if this were the case, they would all revert to the Mandrakes special rule "Shadow-skinned" and this would mean that ALL of the DE would strike first. I don't know about you, but I find that we are fast enough already, if this change happened then your opponent would get really angry because they cannot attack and not want to play you anymore, and I'm assuming that not every single model of the enemy would have frags.

    Good concepts, but maybe for a tabletop game called 'Dark Eldar Rule the Galaxy', or something like that.

    Fly High!

    PS: Imagine a Warrior and a SMurf tied to a stake and fired with the same Strength 5 Weapon. The Warrior survives, but the SMurf is toast...
    I just can't see that happening.
    Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Age
    8
    Posts
    28
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Yeah, it really was just a "what if" kind of conversation but I wanted to chuck it out there. I wasn't really aiming to turn the Dark Eldar into an auto win army as I agree its dull.

    Regarding the night shield, my latest edition codex and the pdf both say that the night shield does affect if the vehicle can be seen with night fighting. In my experience the night shield as it stands at the moment only really protects against rapid fire or anything from a 24" range down. 36" range weapons you can get lucky with if you're positioned properly, while anything in the 48-72 band (thankfully I haven't faced any Tau yet) and the night shield is next to useless.

    Regarding the cover saves for infantry, I didn't want them all to have the mandrake special rule. It was more like the lictor, as I said in the original post, but without the additional bonus when you are actually in cover. The cover save reverts to an armour save in close combat. Since most Dark Eldar saves are so low I didn't originally think it was that game breaking. So warriors and the like would have a 5+ cover save at range, that was negated by blast, template and ordnance weapons and revert to an armour save in close combat. The warrior being able to potentially (admittedly only a 33% chance) to survive a lascannon shot where a space marine can't is a little silly granted, however its less due to the warrior shaking it off and more to do with not being seen properly. Obviously there would be a points cost increase in there somewhere. My regular opponent plays marines and they do all have frag grenades. Annoyingly.

    Thanks for your input people.

    Though in all honesty the idea of a smurf being tied to a post and exploded is no bad thing...
    Last edited by Malaghast; November 29th, 2008 at 12:13.
    Dark Eldar:
    Win 2. Draw 1. Losses 11.
    I'm still learning. :)

  7. #6
    Son of LO ArtificiallyEnhanced's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    My house, the UK
    Posts
    2,490
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    321 (x8)

    Also, frag grenades are only needed if a terrain test was needed to assault. If we just had a cover save, this would not mean we would be striking first in CC as not terrain test is needed to assault us, unless we're actually in cover.
    http://www.armyroster.com Check out my ToP WIP in the projects section!


  8. #7
    the mandrake Dracon Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Age
    26
    Posts
    352
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    42 (x1)

    Might I ask which Black Library publication you're referring to?
    Kabal of the Twilight Blade - Host of Tecpatl - Salamanders 3rd


  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Age
    8
    Posts
    28
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracon Bob View Post
    Might I ask which Black Library publication you're referring to?
    Whited it out just in case it spoils anything for anyone, a forum I used to frequent was harsh on this kind of stuff, sorry if it smacks of paranoia:

    [spoiler]Brothers of the Snake[spoiler]

    Ok, that didn't work as well as I would have liked, but did my best.
    Dark Eldar:
    Win 2. Draw 1. Losses 11.
    I'm still learning. :)

  10. #9
    Member EvilMatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Posts
    71
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    I like the idea of Hawkuli's 'Dark Eldar Rule the Galaxy' game
    Nurse by day, Haemonculus by night

  11. #10
    The Keenest of Eyes The Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Soaring through Darkness
    Posts
    672
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    190 (x3)

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilMatty View Post
    I like the idea of Hawkuli's 'Dark Eldar Rule the Galaxy' game
    HA! Thanks mate. Now I have to convince GW...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaghast View Post
    Regarding the night shield, my latest edition codex and the pdf both say that the night shield does affect if the vehicle can be seen with night fighting
    Not in the Codex I have buddy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaghast View Post
    Though in all honesty the idea of a smurf being tied to a post and exploded is no bad thing...
    Hmmm... Maybe that can be arranged.

    But in all honesty, the rules you came up with are good against an opponent that does not know Warhammer. And how many are there out there...

    Fly High!
    Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts