Has anyone tried Without Number in 5th? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Has anyone tried Without Number in 5th?

    I was just curious if anyone has tried using spinegaunts and Without Number since 5th ed. I was considering using the upgrade myself and just wanted to get some opinions on it.

    I figure the upgrade will allow me to keep using the suicidal tactics I used for gaunts back in 4th ed, but then they can come back and take an objective for me on my side of the table. However, it's a hefty upgrade cost, and it may just be better to throw more bodies at the opponent at once instead of having them come back later.


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    Without number is incredibly useful in tournament situations. The ability to re-enter the field of play on turns 4 and 5 have allowed me to pull off victories in numerous games. I typically run a Zilla/Stealer shock list with two, 8man squads of WoN gaunts. Investing 128pts in two scoring units that are 100% guaranteed to still be there at the end of a game is, IMO, the best use of gaunts in 5th.

    Just remember, small squads.

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    But when they come back onto the board they will likely not be in synapse, so will have to lurk or fallback, both of which count them as unable to contest or hold objectives....
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    Well the solution to that is to have DS warriors hanging back within synapse range of their board edge, as they are still likely to be supporting the rest of the army with their 24" weapons, and you can always stray a little forther onto the board to nip back when you have incoming gaunts.

    Warriors, IMO are a must have in all but the more Nidzilla of Tyranid lists now - Let the Tyrants and thropes guide the swarm forwards and get stuck in, cos warriors bring us effective anti infantry/anti-light tank firepower en-masse for a reasonable cost.

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    BANANA! Hive Fleet Ruina's Avatar
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    no, and unless someone has a good argument, I will never. this is because:

    1) this is the main point, extra victory points. on page 40 of the codex, under Without Number, 2nd line from the bottom, "victory points are scored as usual for the brood and its replacements as if they were entirely seperate broods.

    2) lots of points, if I take 8 termagaunts it will be 48 points, if with without number, then 72 points, big diference, you are depriving many gaunts there.

    3) synapse.

    that is enough for now, so I would advise not to take without number, unless it is an extremily small game.
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    I've been opting for 1-2 extra units of spine-gaunts instead of using WoN. That's been working for me pretty well.

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    I dont think i've played a game of 5th ed without Wo# for at least one unit of gaunts. 2/3 of the missions in the book are objective based, meaning only one is killpoint, and Wo# says you may bring them back (not that you have to).

    I tend to try to run things as cheaply as possible, but it's nice to have a living shield die and come back to the back field. Low point games this is a very nice thing to have, especially since i started running shooty bugs.


    My primary tactic with them has been to field the Wo# gaunts as a speed bump/shield in front of things that wont come back and buy time as I advance/gun down things coming my way. Once dead, i'll bring them up for rear objectives with a synapse creature within 18" of the board edge (gaunt 6" move on, synapse 12"). Or in the case of fighting near my board edge, i'll have them come back and send a salvo of shots at the nearby enemy. I gravitate toward running squads of 10.


    Granted, my hive fleet is still smallish (38 Stealers, 50 Gaunts, 3 Fexes, 2 Zoes, 1 Tyrant, 2 Guard, 1 Broodlord, 6 Warriors). If I expand my gaunt numbers significantly I'll likely use less of Wo#.

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    I've had moderate success with WoN upgrade. I've run it with two units of 12 spine gaunts and I also keep another two units of 12 spinegaunts with no extra upgrades. The gaunts w/ WoN rush forward to die in front of my heavy hitting army. The naked spinegaunts follow behind the main push of the army to hold forward objectives while the respawning gaunts come in from the back to hold back objectives.

    A note about gaunts arriving from reserve. On pg 94 for of the main rule book, under the section "Arriving From Reserves" it says this. "If a unit has a special rule forcing it to move in a specifc direction (such as ‘rage’, for example) or that could stop it from moving, the rule is ignored in the phase when it arrives from Reserve." This means that guants arriving from reserve do not have to follow Instinctive Behavior. So you get one free turn with the gaunts outside of synapse and not having to worry about it.

    Even with that in mind I still kept a zoanthrope with just Synapse in the back to guide the little gribblies.

    As for the kill point issue. Yeah, each respawned unit of gaunts provides another kill point, however, if your second wave of gaunts is dieing, chances are you're not going to be close to winning. I've played several KP missions with WoN gaunts and it's never been an issue. I just moved my gaunts back and kept them out of reach. It's not like they'll bring down much if they are up front.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruina
    no, and unless someone has a good argument, I will never. this is because:

    1) this is the main point, extra victory points. on page 40 of the codex, under Without Number, 2nd line from the bottom, "victory points are scored as usual for the brood and its replacements as if they were entirely seperate broods.
    You should keep reading page 40 under Without Number, second line:
    "Any brood Without Number that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the next Tyranid turn."

    In kill point missions you have the option of not bringing them back into play at your discretion. If you don't want them to be respawning killpoints, don't bring them back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruina
    2) lots of points, if I take 8 termagaunts it will be 48 points, if with without number, then 72 points, big diference, you are depriving many gaunts there.
    If those 8 termagaunts die, you just lose 48 points. If those same gaunts die without number, you paid 72 points for 96 points worth of Gaunts that didn't die to whatever the first group died from. This can very easily be game winning. If your opponent cannot figure out how to deal with two squads of Gaunts respawning on back objectives, even at a full 5 objective game you only have to claim one more to guarantee a win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruina
    3) synapse.
    Magnet man covered this one,

    Quote Originally Posted by magnet_man
    A note about gaunts arriving from reserve. On pg 94 for of the main rule book, under the section "Arriving From Reserves" it says this. "If a unit has a special rule forcing it to move in a specifc direction (such as ‘rage’, for example) or that could stop it from moving, the rule is ignored in the phase when it arrives from Reserve." This means that gaunts arriving from reserve do not have to follow Instinctive Behavior. So you get one free turn with the gaunts outside of synapse and not having to worry about it.
    This is correct, there isn't really an issue of those Gaunts not being in Synapse so long as it doesn't last more than that one turn. They are still scoring the turn they come in from the board edge. If you get second turn, that all but guarantees you'll claim the objective. Stick two separate WoN gaunt squads on your objective in Capture and Control and you're pretty set, they can surround the objective more than 3" out.

    Yes, there are ways around it like killing a Gaunt squad to the last model and just leaving it there alive, killing it off at the last moment. Also, if you put WoN on a huge squad of Gaunts, you generally won't really make much use of it. It's best put on squads of 10-12 in size so they can live after a squad shooting at them, but still die quickly enough to make use of WoN.

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    BANANA! Hive Fleet Ruina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    You should keep reading page 40 under Without Number, second line:
    "Any brood Without Number that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the next Tyranid turn."

    In kill point missions you have the option of not bringing them back into play at your discretion. If you don't want them to be respawning killpoints, don't bring them back in.

    then there is no point of having Wo# ^_^

    If those 8 termagaunts die, you just lose 48 points. If those same gaunts die without number, you paid 72 points for 96 points worth of Gaunts that didn't die to whatever the first group died from. This can very easily be game winning. If your opponent cannot figure out how to deal with two squads of Gaunts respawning on back objectives, even at a full 5 objective game you only have to claim one more to guarantee a win.

    true, but I find that the gaunts don't have a chance to get into the heat of the battle in time.
    I find that Wo# is not to usefull to me, but that is me
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