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Avenger Shuriken Catapult: range 18"
Shuriken Pistol: range 12"
Regular Shuriken Catapult: range 12"???
Can anyone explain why this is? Why the short range? Why is the shuricat("rifle") the same range as the pistol? I mean really. Compare to other armies:
Bolter: range 24"
Bolt Pistol: Range 12"
Splinter Rifle: 24"
Splinter Pistol: 12"
Pulse Rifle: 30"
Pulse Carbine: 18"
Pulse Pistol: 12"
Getting the picture? Even the guard have a similar difference. Being as weak as they are, wouldn't it make sense to give them a little range? At 12" guardians have to get close enough to get their one shot off, then get assaulted. Dear GW, please amend the shuriken catapult ranges as follows: Avenger Cat: 24", Shuriken Cat: 18", and Shuriken Pistol: 12".
Crossing my fingers.
I feel your pain but it is balance, defender guardians are the main users of the weapon they had fleet making them fast ( now everyone can run but couldn't back in the day ) they are fairly cheap and can get a heavy weapon that can move and shoot. If you could move and shoot 18" plus the heavy weapon they would need to cost more. several of the weapons you listed only have a range of 12" when moving because of rapid fire, and again the guardian can shoot the heavy weapon and assualt ( not that you really would want to in most cases ). The other main use of the catapult is on bikes we already can upgrade 1/3 to a 24" gun with more shots and better str. If they had the greater range they could shoot many assault units without fear of charges because of the range and the assault move they get.
Now if you want to get the DA catapult out to 24" that might make more sense but then blade storms at 24" would be a bit cheesy. As not many units can get 30+ shots at 24" at a BS of 4.
While I resign myself to the fact that it just ain't gona happen, I believe avengers getting the 24 inch range is perfectly reasonable. If they were put into line with the points costs of the other aspects, it would be a decent change. I do feel your pain on the guardians but realistically how far can a spinning knife fly before loosing accuracy? The pistol just has the same distance because you sacrifice speed of the shots for more concentration on hitting with the one shot you have. Also, the weapons you listed with better range are mostly rapid fire weapons and can not charge after using them and must stand still if you want to use their max range. The way I see it, the shuriken cats have all the advantages of eldar while the bolters (or equivalent there of) have the human advantages. Personally I'll take Assault weapons over rapid fire any day.
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I know, I know, balance, fluff, spinning knives. But really, the shuriken catapult fires 12" regardless if it moves or runs? Same as the pistol? I understand the max range differences with the other weapons, i.e. standing still gives you a greater range. Shouldn't that work for the eldar too? I would think that the technology of the Eldar would find a way to give a little distance and accuracy to spinning knives.
Great weapon, just wishing it had a little more range.
Guardian gun line, think about it.
So, when I started Eldar in 2nd Ed, the First thing in every army list was 2 or 3 units of 7 guardians with Shruiken Catapaults for 98 points per unit.
Here are the stats:
Shruiken Catapault: Range 24", Str:4, Save Modifier: -2, Number of Shots: Sustained Fire 1 (which means 1, 2, 3, or jam).
Bolter: Range 24", Str:4, Save Mod: -1, 1 shot.
Moral of the story? Back in the day, the Shruiken Catapault was a good weapon. Better than a bolter, in fact, by far.
Now, on your rant, the Shruiken Catapault is not the rifle version of a shruiken pistol- it's the carbine version, sort of like a sub-machine gun. The Avenger Shruiken Catapault is the rifle version- call it an assault rifle to continue the metaphore.
In order for me to take Guardians in any meaningful number, I'd need either 6" of range added to both the S Cat and the Avenger Cat, or an extra shot for each of them. Honestly, I think 6" more inches of range would be more balanced, but /shrug.
Anyway, been preaching this since 3rd came out, don't hold your breath.
An Eldar player complaining about weapons.. tisk tisk. Only thing I wouldn't expect more (though I might not be too surprised to see it now) is a Tau player complaining that Battle Suits can't move 12" in the assault phase, rather than 6.
No really though. (I kid, I kid)
The thing you are missing is the fact that it is an assault weapon. And a potent one at that. The entire Eldar composition is about support, and when Guardians are used in conjunction with other units those ShuriCats have some devistating effects. More devastating than an IG player could achieve with massed Las fire, even.
The Eldar are not to be taken as an 'up front' kind of army, that is.. they cannot be taken at face value - even the most apparently weakest Eldar unit can have /superbly/ devastating effects, beyond that which their mortal kin-players could achieve, when used properly. Perhaps more appropriately, I should say that the Eldar are not supposed to be (in any respect) compared to the golden standard of a SMurf army. The Eldar are given lower numbers sometimes because they are (IMHO) meant to be the epitome of a veteran's army - those seemingly lower numbers are given the advantage over those seemingly higher numbers: given their appropriate placement within an army composition and more importantly, a battle field.
The Eldar are all about how you PLAY them, not about how their numbers look. Just to emphasise the point, this post is not coming from a competent Eldar player (I've been on average about 50/50 with my Eldar army), but rather from someone who regularly faces a very competent Eldar opponent and rarely wins. Trust me, Guardians and their puny 12" can devastate an army.
The humble Shuriken Catapult has dropped in effectiveness quite a bit since second ed when guardians could be used to trade volleys with Space Marines at 24" and win, it's very much a different animal now.
Guardians are close support units now and as Boss pointed out they seem rather weak alone but thats how many Eldar units look. Each unit must work together in order to work efficiantly. Guides, Dooms, psychic squad leaders/buffers and move and fire heavy weapons are the balancing price of a 12" range. Give them an 18" range on their basic guns and these combinations become ridiculously powerful, simply look at how Dire Avengers bounced from laughable to the go to troop choice whith little more than the very buff your talking about.
I had serious issues with the 12" range when it came in but now I don't find it so bad, it just means you have to pick your moment a little more carefully rather than blazing away every turn. You want to be sure then when your guardians commit to unloading their shuriken fire theirs enough support for them to annihilate their enemy in one volley
"ask not the Eldar a question, for he will give you three answers, all of which are true and terrifying to know"
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2K Mech Eldar in 2010: 25Win/4Lose/8Draw
Guardians, IMHO, do have power in combat, especially with an attached Warlock, but they won't necessarily hold their own by themselves for very long. This is why you have aspect warriors. ..I think that last sentence sums up everything else I could want to say.
because of the range of guardians` catapults they cannot act as core unit in the army[not ulthwe], When i tried to play them they only could sit back and sniper things with the blatform and act as nuisance for enemy force, so the rest could win the battle. I dont think they should be changed. Their price is appropriate to their abilites on the battlefield. Swooping Hawks on the ohter hand should be rethinked...remember, the concept of Eldar army is to work together with other units.
Chaos is a word you created to define order you do not understand. Malkavian saying