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I would like to know fluff wise what would a team of imperial guard veterans be equipt with to take out a carnifex?
I figure you guys would give me the most realistic answer?
I think they would be equiped with anti-tank weapons. They might also try to set some bobby traps. Mines could be laid and then hte Carnifex lured to run over them. Of course if the Carnifex notices the mines or traps it will probably go around. It also depends on what species of Carnifex the Veterans are dealing with. Carnifexes come in loads of different breeds and all of these different Carnifexes have different ways of hunting their prey. The weapons they have will dictate what they are good at and strongly influence their behaviour.
If the Carnifex is biomorphed with claws, blades and huge mandibles then it is likely to charge right at them. If it gets close the Veterans will become casualties. With a Carnifex like that any strategy will involve destroying it before it can get close. Carnifexes like that are very aggressive, more than most and the booby traps might work a little better. Other Carnifexes may be evolved to be more flexible. They may carry large blades for limbs but also a ranged symbiote. These ones would be more likely to gun down the Veterans and rip them the pieces at close range when it suits itself.
The last variety of Carnifex uses two guns of some sort. These ones won't charge as quickly but they will shoot up the Veterans from a distance. Veterans would need to know how to deal with these different types. Ambushing the Carnifex as it rushes forward, or having to avoid being bombed by it's weapons as they try to get close enough. Think about them managing to trick it into falling off a cliff or some other hazard. I don't think Veterans are likely to ever cause much problems for any Carnifex in assault. Regardless half or more of the Veterans would likely die in an encounter with a Carnifex even if they eventually destroy it. Hope this helps.
I never thought about different carnifexes behaving differently, I cant see any imperial guard unit in close combat winning against any tyranid creature let alone a carnifex.
So fluff wise what would a trained for tyranids imperial guard army bring to the battlefield?
fluff-wise , id definetly say a decent amount of flamers and heavy bolters - stuff that can dish out the hurt to a mass of targets and a fast rate.
I think a variety of weapons. All kinds of things as Tyranids vary a great deal. Lascannons for big monsters and things like flamers for small creatures like Rippers. Imperial guard win their wars by endlessly expending the lives of their soldiers in a huge onslaught. This is what Tyranids are inclined to do but in a more alien, gross manner along with constantly adapting to what the enemy are trying to do. Tyranids are also one of the few armies that can match or exceed Imperial guard in numbers.
I think what the Imperial guard would bring to battle the Tyranids would be soldiers. To overcome the Tyranids adaptations and find their weak spots would very difficult for most of the common, bottom of the food chain type humans that make up the Imperial guards ranks. To counter the Tyranids Imperial guard would need to use what they always use. Countless hordes of soldiers to be thrown (quite literally) into the meat grinder. Of course Veterans would be more experienced but most Guard tactics against Tyranids would be to meet the Tyranids numbers with brute force.
Yes, I find it strange that the great mind will adopt and change to beat its enemies but the imperial guard use the same tactics.
I read how the tyranids went from a head on attack with a one large force, then next time it was attacking with two forces at the same time (cant remember the actual name of the attacks). So the next question is how quickly do the tyranids adopt to the battle situation?
Whenever I go up against my IG opponent, I always end up facing a fair amount of lascannons. His tactics are to take out my MCs first, and then work his way down. However, he fails to estimate the effectiveness of Gaunts. He is so unpreoccupied with them, that he doesn't even realise that they are right in his face. But when he has good days, he lets heavy bolters and multi-meltas take care of them. He really has trouble with Genestealers and the Broodlord though, as soon as they get into close combat.
My advice to you when versing IG would be to let your instincts do the talking. When it comes to ranged weaponry, we are totally outclassed, but because our weapons rely on the strength of the user (albeit the maximum) they can cause some damage. The IG rely on nice thick numbers, not as much as our own, but they make up for it in their ability to stick together and back up any squads that fall. Nids need to get into close combat with the IG, as they are not CC oriented. A CC Fex, backed up by some Rending Warriors, can go after the HQ and squad. Barbed Stranglers and Venom Cannon target those standard troops, and Genestealers just annoy the absolute ants out of the enemy.
I personally find that Termagaunts are not that effective against the IG. Hormogaunts are far superior when faced in this situation. Remember, cover is your friend, and do not leave home without Toxin Sacs. As I said, unless you know that you can get into CC, the battelfield is your oyster. Just watch for the tendency of the guard to seek the higher ground, and either stay as one inpenetrable unit or split up into two factions, with any high Toughness models and vehicles charging at you straight down the middle. If this is the case, consider using the Psychic Powers in your arsenal to good effect. Use Catalyst (always helps) and the Template Warp Blast, as the focus bolt is only for HQs and Vehicles.
Anyway, the IG are fun to toy with, but do not underestimate them. Many do, and pay the price with defeat. Exercise caution, but also exercise how weak they are at CC. Just watch out for the few that excel at it, like Ogryns and possibly Rough Riders, and the horribly dreadful HQs.
Hope I have set you on the course to conquer, and devour.
Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
I am sorry but I was talking about fluff not actual game play, I just wanted to learn more about the tyranids, and find out how the great mind works.
Example: A tyranid force is unable to take down a base, how long would it take for the hive mind to try a new strategy? Is the hive mind complex, or does it just reacts to certain situations?
Thanks and sorry about the confusion
Last edited by CKO; December 6th, 2008 at 04:12.
The hive mind is vast and inhuman, able to adapt and analyse strategies on a whim. Driven by an eternal hunger and need to conquer.
The fleet arrives to be driven back on the first wave, losing many of its force to well prepared, fleshy, adversaries. The hive feels rage and unsated hunger driving it more desperate to discover weakness, to take all it learnt and fashion a better beast to hunt an underestimated prey.
The second wave is successful beyond expectations and the driving mind behing this fleet uses it again, and again, building more of it's creatures in the fashion of those it created before, until it cannot feed its hunger again, or meets a different foe...
The fleet encounters resistance that runs right at it, baring blades and noise, again the mind adapts, creating more ranged to counter, to support those holding the different fleshed beings away, remembering what they fell to for further use.
Once more the fleet returns to find the fleshy creatures it devoured before, it remembers how these creatures fell to become feed for the ienvitable swarm and changes again, to how it fought them before.
Essentially. The hive mind is darwinian to the extent of cold, calculating mutability in the face of hunger. If it cannot feed so well, it will work it's synapse off until it can. Useless creations will be consumed to be resculpted into the form of something more useful, more lethal, better fashioned to face the current meal.
In overall summary - Tyranid units are cutlery. It's simply deciding whether you'll use a fork or chopsticks, then making them.
For fluff, I'd say Heavy bolters and grenade launchers. If it was just regular guants i'd say flamers. But is big and scary so they'd pull out the big guns. Also, I'd model them with krak grenades. I'm pretty sure the Ultramarines said that they had good sucess using them agents them in the last SM codex. I can be sure that some IG general would have cought wind of this and modeled his stratagies like wise. Maybe a sniper rifle for the whole "hunting" thing.
I can't think of what kind of close combat weapon to give the sergant. But a bolt pistol and power weapon would not be unexpected.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.