Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I'm not an Eldar player, neither have I faced many Eldar armies (there are only 2 Eldar players in my area, that I know of) so perhaps it's my lack of experience with them that has me questioning their use in Apoc games.
After reading the conclusion to the Tale of 4 Gamers in the most recent WD I came to a rather quick and seemingly stark conclusion. Eldar are too fragile for Apoc.
My basis for this is that from the Fight Report as the Apoc game played out is seemed that each time the Eldar were engaged (hand to hand or otherwise) for the most part they crumbled. Outside of the Khaine Seer Council the Eldar seemed incredibly prone to falling apart. Though the Crimson Fists were not rolling the best they looked like what was holding the game together for the one side.
I understand that Eldar require a lot of skill to play and need to be coordinated in their attacks to be strong. In my mind I see them working well in regular Tourney and Pick up Games but in mass games (Apoc) coordinating across such a large area and effectively attacking in the right manners seems to fall apart rather quickly, especially when it's far harder to predict how your enemies are going to react over such a greater area.
Am I right in thinking the Eldar are too fragile in Apoc? or was as it simply that the player was either not properly using his Eldar force?
Was it because he designed his Eldar for Tourney play that they simply weren't going to fare well in a massed battle?
Thanks for any feedback on this.
No prayers for November
To linger longer
Stick your spoon in the wall
We'll slaughter them all
-Tom Waits November
Perhaps I can help here. Absolutely! I find that the more points I have to play around with, the harder it is for my opponent to handle the ungodly specialization I can throw at them. Each unit in an eldar army works in harmony with the others, taking out it's chosen target with the precision of a surgeon but failing all others. That said, a small Eldar army, even half the points of the opponent, is still capable of handling a decent game against an army that they know what is coming and can prepare for it. These squads are expensive and thus in a 500 point game you can no specialize against multiple types of opponents. In a larger game, say 2000 points, you can have multiple units with their unique specialization and therefore be able to handle different army types more effectively. In an apocalypse game they also have some NASTY formations and great apoc only units, specifically the fliers. Given a good eldar general with enough extra cash, Eldar can send out a crushing wave of apocalyptic fury. Pound for pound, Eldar come out a bit under the cut for most people because they rely more on the user than the rules they implement. They have the speed or tactical flexibility to do their job superbly in the right hands, or fail miserably in the hands of a novice. Hope I helped!
Last edited by Dekendo; December 12th, 2008 at 00:02.
Never apologise for asking questions young seers, through asking
questions we find answers, and through those answers we gain
knowledge of ourselves and the universe around us
Meet My Autarch
I've only played in two apoc games with my eldar first was 6k next was 4k. I have to say that the fragile nature of eldar made it extremely hard. The fact that most other factions are better at multi tasking with their units also makes it hard as no matter where you place units the enemy has something that can do ok against them while my eldar didn't have the same luxury. The only saving grace was that some eldar units have crazy amounts of firepower. When I play again I will just stock up on the mass firepower and go for a bloodbath that I might be able to win.
Lastly the assets really messed me up. The fact that with flank march the enemy could out move me with carnafexes (sp?) makes the speed of eldar kinda moot.
I don't have any of the apoc units but have to say that the fireprism formation is REALLY nasty.
The other thing to remember is although they are fun, the PL's don't really fit in Apoc. I tend to play 3K of the Great Court of the Young King. If I add the PL's to their squads, they tend to get mopped as I have too few bodies. On the other hand, if I add the same points worth of support units: Falcons/Fire Prisms/Wraithlords, things go much better as the larger army can deal with way more things.
My eldar army is pushing at the limit of 10k now, and I'm looking into getting some super-heavies for them now (A titan or a bomber looks most likely, though I'm still looking at giant tanks of much-deathness). Either way, the Eldar are just as trixy in Apoc as they are otherwise.
Let me explain.
In my experience, Eldar function, as has been mentioned, on harmony of the army and coordination. It sounds cheesy and big headed, but a good explination of it is as an art form. Wheras with other armies, most units can do most things relatively well, so you're not too fussed when the tactical squad gets charged by a drednaught, or stumbles across some termies or a baneblade.
With the Eldar, you need the right unit in the right place at the right time. You need to set traps, cunning stratagems and nasty cros-fires. You have to hit first, hit hard, fast and keep on going, before your oponent can come back from the blows. They translate into apoc really well, their aircraft (The one time I got a chance to use one) was out-manouvering a lumbering thunderhawk, running rings around anything else in the sky. My transports become a formation, and even the most powerful weapons need 5's to glance them, and 3' a turn in apoc is really nasty - especially on 50 dire avenegers.
My grav-tanks can fly, and fire-prisms can slip apart to provide general support, or come together to obliterate a single target. My aspect warriors have regularly cut down entire armored companies and won the game because my oponent is too busy fighting 5k+ points of vehicles and aspects to deal with the wave of avengers running onto his objectives. My Hawks have a tally of 4 baneblade varients, two thunderhawks, a fighta-bomba and a warhound titan so far. My Fire Dragons are the local super-heavy hunters, and my Grav-Tanks fly into enemy armoured formations (usually carrying my aspects) and tear them apart. It's like a scaled-up version of a fight, but if you break it into lots of smaller, more managable fights, Eldar are just as nasty. It takes a slightly better general to make it work, but in the right hands your oponent won't know what hit them. Personally, I think Eldar shine in Apoc, much more than in regular games, because at such a high points limit you often find your oponent handing out general equiptment.
He/She will give, say, a tactical squad an anti-tank weapon, a close-combat weapon and an anti-infantry weapon, and then hold the line, relying on his mob of 25 termies in land raiders to break through.
Against my Eldar, I send my infantry-eating units into his tactical squads, backed up my troops to steal his objectives, and tank hunting units with anti-heavy infantry support (wave serpents, banshees, wraithlords etc) into the termies. Despite his best laid plans, my non-apoc units still tear them apart, because of the specialisation.
Perhaps WD just had a really, really bad Eldar general, or perhaps they were perpetuating that SM are unbeatable and the best things ever, again.
Quantity has a Quality all of its own - Josesph Stallin