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This week I have played many games with a more competitive list, what with trying to get a nice balance between fluffy, fun lists and tournament capable lists (not likely a winning list but still going to give a damned good showing). Each of my opponents has been made aware of the fact that it is atleast partially a tourney list, and all agreed to the games on that basis (I had a more 'casual' list for those who didnt want to play a competitive game).
My first two opponents were fine, and I only just scraped through, by one kill point in the first game, and by victory points in the second objectives game. The third opponent, a Tzeentch Thousand Sons player, conceded on turn three and proceeded to throw a hissy fit about 'Not playing against Tau for this reason', saying 'Why play if all you are going to do is move back and forth'.
Now I know JSJ might not be the most fun to play against, but when your entire army is Slow and Purposeful, what do you expect really? Am I being unfair thinking this guy has his panties in a bunch? Or am I justified thinking that he should expect to be bent over the gaming table when he plays slow moving medium range firepower armies vs Tau, with significantly fewer units and troops, allowing me to annihalate atleast a unit per turn with good Battlesuit/Kroot combos?
Thanks in advance.
PS Kroot have redeemed themselves in my eyes, 20 of the blighters shot his Daemon Prince to death on turn 2, moving out of cover to rapid fire that beast into the dirt.
Personally, I'm a bit biased, and am unlikely to have much sympathies with any Chaos player when one considers how many advantages they have, and I certainly don't have any with your opponent on this particular occasion. Tau are a hard army to play and an even harder army to play well. What advantages we have are offset by significant disadvantages. The armies I almost always have very real difficulties against are Orks and, funny old thing, Chaos. Your Chaos opponent strikes me as being a poor tactician and/or simply a bad loser.
You don't mention whether your other 2 opponents made any mention of your JSJ ability, but I'm guessing that they either didn't or made, at most, a couple of (mild and inoffensive) disparaging remarks in frustration and then got on with the game.
I would forget about it and move on - remembering never, never, never to leave home with at least one squad of Kroot in your army case!
~ Raven ~
Oh yes, the other two opponents realy didnt mind, the Ultramarine opponent (the objective game that came down to VP), was pretty damned smart, starting off slow and losing alot of his army, then pulling it back, killing all my crisis suits but my commander by the end of the game, and mauling my scoring units as much as i had mauled his.
The other guy (an Eldar player) also didnt care too much, though he did a bit of a 'sigh JSJ' as the game wore on and I started evading his assault units.
Thanks for the input though, I just didnt really know if I was being unfair because JSJ is pretty potent, especially when you are up against slow moving Chaos (ap3 bolter mean nothing when you have cover/range on your side).
The thing is that the Tau have nothing at all in melee (other than Kroot, or course), so their better units literally NEED tje JSJ capability to be competitive. And yeah, when one plays an army full of Slow and Purposeful against one of the most mobile armies in 40k, one should expect to have rings run around you.
Oh, and welcome to the "I used to think the Kroot suck but now they're awesome" club. We have shirts
I fight for the Greater Good. Too bad for you it's MY Greater Good.
Snow Forces of T'olku W/L/D : 3-4-2... I like to think I'm learning, though.
I'd never complain so long as I was playing against a fair (balanced) list - even a competitive one. Especially if a weakness in my list was exploited. The game is only fun when both players are enjoying themselves - which means when the opponent wins too! I'd see such a game as a learning experience.. how could I make my SnP army more mobile, or at the very least, defend myself against a mobile army?
At the very least, you should never be expected to nerf yourself when playing a balanced list, unless playing against a brand spanking new player. "You're too fast, stand still so I can shoot you!" -"Oh, okay, Jim. Sure thing!" Yeah, I don't think so.
Now, on the other hand, if you were playing a heavily skewed list (focusing on abusing your mobility more than using it as a tactical advantage) I'd be a bit annoyed. But then, playing against a cheese army is never fun unless you crush it to smithereens. Doesn't sound like this is what happened, though.
It all boils down to.. one out of every five 40k players is immature, and subsequently annoying. Avoid if at all possible. If your opponent simply conceded and did not take the time to analyze what he was doing wrong.. thats his bone, I'd suggest not getting too worked up over it, as you'll inevitably meet a couple more of these players along your way.
I've recently become a fan of this thing called Dubstep. And you should too.
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Da Moo Kowz is da drinkinest Orks of dem all!
JSJ is a legitimate strategy. I don't have any problem with it and I've faced it a lot of times and have watched my army almost destroyed due to the tau's superior fire an them damn suits. However as I do play a balanced yet mobile marines list I was still able to get into close combat and wipe their entire army off the board with just a handful of models. Thus is the Tau. Now on the chaos guy if it was a competative game wtg in destroying that heretic you dirty xenos you On the other hand if this was a friendly game it's kind of overkill. These are the kind of games where I'd expect the Tau to charge into close combat...why? Because you can and you have the ability to. But in the end it's efficient, and kudos to exploiting his weakness and really if he's any good good of a player he'll revise his list and come back another day with something suited better against a superior enemy.
"The only hatred any man should hone, is hatred against himself for not being able to serve the Emperor to his full extent. This is the hatred he should unleash upon the enemy, and in doing so, the Emperor will protect."
Master Lucius, Chapter Master of the Noble Templars
Rhinos are now dirt cheap for SM and CSM. Tell him to give up around 100 points from his list so his squads can actually get somewhere.
And also, that he lost because you were better able to design and use an army than he was... no reason to complain, you won fair and square.
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.
JSJ can be frustrating to an opponent, especially slow moving Terminators or Thousand Sons.
But if his army list cannot deal with fast moving units at all, his army list is lacking, or he has made an unbalanced list that is easy to defeat.
I have charged with Crisis suits, but it was against a Guard command squad to finish it off, I would not be charging a full squad of Marines if the option of escape presented itself.
The only list my Tau had major trouble against was the Dark Eldar WWP with lots of raiders list.
I wasn't able to remove the WWP deployer unit due to cover and then Raiders were out maneuvering me and catching my poor Tau in combat.
That was a close game that I lost by a few points but it was certainly an eye opener as I had not played the DE in close to a decade, and never against someone who could use them correctly. I looked forward to playing that guy again next week with the same list. (I think I lost the second time too!)
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff
He's whining, pure and simple. Sure its annoying, but heck so are AP3 bolters, tell him for every unit he deploys in the farthest possible corner away from anything and doesn't move them for a turn, you'll not JSJ with a single suit. If he can't deal with a fairly slow fast unit something is majorly wrong with his list.
JSJ can annoy the hell out of opponents but then every army has something like that (Lash of Submission/Combat Tactics etc). Im not saying these are bad to have just that they can annoy opponents. But throwing a hissy fit and moaning about it isnt going to make things very enjoyable for anyone. The joy is in countering and defeating them. Honestly are you supposed to not use one of your armies main advantages just to make things easy for your opponent?
When I played against Tau Omegoku wiped the floor with my Black Legion. Id no idea what Tau did besides knowing they had lots of firepower and had no idea of JSJ. When we eventually get around to a rematch they same thing could possibly happen again. But then knowing what to expect this time hopefully things will go a lot better (for me that is). But knowing what Tau do Ill be able to make a better effort this time.
My (slightly off topic) point Im trying to make is that your opponent seems to have going in to game with a negative POV knowing that he was going to have trouble against a much more manouravble army and so conceded early. Theres no need for him to whine. Tau arent going to change. His army list can.
Currently play: 4000+ of Black Legion